Okay, I finally found a job after about 5 months of serious searching (plus a month of not-so serious looking). Yowza... my wife just about had a nervous breakdown thinking we were going to have to move to the U.S. so I could find work ;-) We had started the countdown... Lucky me I get to stay in Madrid for a bit longer. :-p At least it's Summer, I love summer in Spain.

Here's the scoop:

You know how these things go, I didn't just get one offer, I got two on the same day. This was nice for negotiation, but it didn't change the results much. I'm a programmer with 8+ years of experience at some pretty high-end jobs. You can see my resume on my website if you're curious. Who knows how my resume would do in the U.S. now with the market as it is, but I'm pretty confident I could find a job pretty easily for decent cash with my skills.

Here, however, it's a whole different experience.

The first offer, which I seriously considered, was this: $21,000 a year, plus 10% yearly bonus of my billing (it was for a consultancy), plus 80% of Health Insurance, plus $7 a day for lunch, plus a laptop, plus training in SAP (a back-end system normally used by big institutions for financials and HR). This wasn't just a job, but a career. I would be in charge of helping the company get up to speed with Server-side Java. It was interesting, but the base salary was almost insulting. The problem with the bonus is that consultants don't charge the same rates here as in the U.S. $50 an hour is HIGH for example and insanely cheap in the U.S. (even now). That means that even if I worked like a nut for a year, I could only get a bonus of MAYBE $10,000. But that wasn't likely since my job was mostly training, not consulting (they don't have any Java contracts yet). I asked for more money, but they just said that the company had levels and that their hands were tied. Too bad.

The second offer, which I accepted, was for a contract until December at Telefonica R&D doing an ADSL portal for broadband users (games, video conferencing, etc.). Anyone remember my problems with Telefonica ADSL? As always the world is a funny place. This project is interesting, but uses ATG Dynamo which is Java system that is losing market share... It's not bad, I just wish it was more resume-enhancing. This offer was just about money (no perks). At first I said no because my wife wanted me to take the "real" job. But after I said that money was really the issue, the consulting company I'm working through bumped their original offer of $25,000 up to $30,000 a year and I accepted.

Note that I was earning $35,000 at Terra where I quit because my coworkers were smoking like fiends. Call me an idiot. I left a job, lost 6 months of salary and then had to beg to find a job for $5k less... Another day, another valuable lesson.

Here's some things I finally figured out:

1) Don't be surprised and figure out what to say when they ask you about your formal education. I'm a college drop out. This doesn't play well in a country where everyone goes to college until they're 26 because there's no jobs.

2) Don't be surprised when they ask you your age. I turned 30 in January. They're looking for young programmers here for some reason (right out of college) and aren't particularly concerned that those guys usually don't get the job done. Feeling old and out of it at 30 hurts. I'm not old and out of it, it's just that the idiots running companies here don't have a clue. Spain will NEVER be an economic power, trust me.

3) I'm a REALLY good interviewee having been a consultant for so many years. I've probably had a 100+ interviews, seriously. But this is all in English. Selling yourself in Spanish is impossible for a non native speaker at my level: Lesson? Shut the f*ck up and let the interviewer talk.

4) Don't ever say the salary you're looking for. Let them give you an offer (as horrible as it is, it's better than nothing.) I started out in January saying I wanted "at least" 45,000 a year. That got me nowhere. Saying "whatever is fair" got me two offers (for 1/2 that).

5)Spanish employers have no respect for their workers and much, much less for prospective-employees. Even if you go somewhere 3 times and talk to 5 employees and spend a bunch of money, time and effort going to and fro, don't be surprised when they don't have the courtesy to notify you to when they decide not to hire you. In fact, you can expect them to avoid your calls and emails. It's like you don't exist anymore.

6) My experience has been that in the U.S. interviewers like when you talk about a foible you have - some downside or a dislike. They see you as more human, less cocky, more open and someone they can like. (Don't get nuts and start talking about your shoplifting habit, but in general it's a truism). In Spain, that doesn't work. It's all about being macho and saving face. You have no flaws, work like a god and expect dirt for salary.

7) Mention the baby. They like that. Have a website with pics that you can show them during the interview... ;-)

8) The truth actually works. I was just saying that "things didn't work out" at Terra at first and the interviewers really honed in on that. I was there for such a short time that the interviewers thought I was fired. When I just decided to start telling the truth that I quit because my manager and coworkers wouldn't take my complaints about the smoke seriously, the interviewers laughed and started chatting about American foibles. So maybe I was wrong about the above thing, you can have foibles, they just have to be National stereotypes...

What else? I'm missing other stuff for sure, but that's the "learned" stuff that I can remember for now.

Thank goodness I have a job.

-Russ

Wow, Russ, that is INCREDIBLE information to have! I am, of course, flabbergasted by the salaries (my husband works in the non-profit sector--he probably couldn't get a third of his salary over there!).

I have never really gotten a good idea of how much a small family needs to live in Madrid, but I would hope that the figures you're describing are enough to live on! They certainly aren't here, unless both husband and wife work and child care is affordable (child care for an infant runs between $6,000 and $12,000 a year, and it's not much cheaper for older kids). I tend to see around $50,000 as a MINIMUM for a small family that would like to own a home...and that assumes no outstanding college debt, etc. Obviously that's not typical here, either, but in a big city...it's pretty necessary.

It's a good think you didn't send all those flames to Telefonica...they would have come back to nip you!

Congratulations on the job, and thanks so much for the interview and negotiation tips. It's such a "standard" part of American interviews to be asked about personal weaknesses (interview coaches will say to describe a strength as a "weakness," as in "I am so organized I drive my coworkers crazy," or "I am a perfectionist and have to remind myself to delegate things"). I wouldn't have thought about not mentioning such things.

And it's good to know that baby pictures help...you'll be amazed at all the cool things that kid will do for you! First he gets you a job...what next? See if he has any good lotto numbers, willya?

You owe him a double bedtime story tonight!

congrats Russ and thanks for the post. Love your honesty and it's nice to hear about the realities of living and working in Spain amongst all of the long-term dreams we hear so much about on this board.

Jared

Hey Russ, congratulations!!!

Wow, baby Alex did come with 'un pan bajo el brazo'! (old Spanish saying, ask Ana what it means, ha, ha!)

I'm hoping to be able to post very similar news about myself (I might get a great job) by the end of the week!!!

Congrats Russ on your 2nd bit of good news in such a short time! And good luck Pim on your possible job!!

You all give us hope!!!

-GG

Russ, that information you gave us is unvaluable

It is how the market works... from an american point of view.

I've had several conferences of how to go through a job-seeking proccess by some big companies (spanish and american). They gave us some clues on how to fill a curriculum, and how to face a job interview. What was very interesting is that they told us that those same clues would be different, and sometimes the opposite, when you go to other countries (France, USA,...) because they tend to value other things.

Russ I feel that you tend to see things with the same standards than in the USA. When I was studying in Washington I tried to do the same, see things from a spaniard point of view. That doesn't work. For the good or the bad spanish and american cultures are very different. Not better or worse, just different.

There is a saying in spanish that tells: "Donde fueres haz lo que vieres" (literally "where you go do what you see"). You should try to adapt as much as you can... otherwise your time here will be a hell.

Best regards.

Fernando

Fernando, that's a great saying. We have a similar saying in English, which goes "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

In this case, I suppose it would be "When in Spain do as the Spaniards do..."

Wow, LostInMadrid. I think you've floored us all -- at least those of us here in the USA who really haven't a clue about "real life" and "real jobs" there in Spain. Many of us think of Spain.. and Europe.. as being progressive and actually EASIER to find work. We're cocky that we're "American", have a college degree (trust me, mine hasn't done SQUAT for me!), don't live at home, and feel we can get any GOOD job in ANY part of the world (except in Asia, maybe). Give us all the charisma in the world and a college education and we think we're Gods. But guess what?! We're NOT!!! HARDLY! I look at you and I see just a little (ONLY a little!) of myself.. I see you with ALL this great marketable experience and then I look at myself with that useless college education and no useful marketable experience and I ask myself if *I* can get ANY job! Everyone, mainly the "American" and Brits tell me, including those whom live/work in Spain, "Oh come on! With your website and knowledge of Spain! You won't have ANY problem. Don't worry!" But guess what.. I'm FREAKIN' WORRIED! I really don't want to be a street sweeper or bus-boy at some restuarant when/if I move to Madrid in a year or two. I think your posting is TRULY enlightening and I/we thank you for it. If YOU had trouble with Spanish in your all-Spanish interview, I can only imagine how it would be for ME or others! If only you knew how many emails I got exclaiming, "HELP! I'M AN AMERICAN WHO NEEDS TO FIND A JOB IN MADRID BEFORE ARRIVING!!!" you're be surprised.

CONGRATULATIONS, Russ. It seems the moral to this story, a common story at that, is to be thankful for what little you can get in this life when living in Spain. And accept the "work to live and not live to work" mentality. I'm guessing you might have some familial support there in Madrid and you can be thankful for that if that's the case. I am often in amazement when SOMEONE can actually be SUCCESSFUL when living/working in Spain.

Good for you, Russ. GOOD FOR YOU. We appreciate you around here. TWO wonderful things have happened to you this month already. What's next?!

Your friend, MadridMan

About those salaries. Can I remind everyone that you can't compare apples and oranges? In spain some of the salaries you guys are talking about are for somewhat wealthy people. 3,000,000pts translates into $16,200.00 and that's a pretty nice salary over there!(and here its poor). Its not fair or pratical to impose your American ideas of salary and wealth over there, its a totally different ball game. You should have seen the look on the face of the man from the bank where I got a loan to buy my apartment over there. When they converted my american salary of $32,000, he just about fell out of his seat! Jajajaj! If he only knew! Anyways, he was very impressed (also probably because of my age and making so much $$$!- but I know living in spain I wouldn't have a job making 6,000,000pts! :o Wouldn't THAT be nice! ) I can't imagine how to live on $16,000./yr, but that's pretty standard. Just as money matters goes, you also cannot expect to change the work environment because of the culture you're in. You're not in the US anymore, and have to deal with everything that goes along with the new place you're living in, and that goes good and bad (according to your standards, as its different for everyone.) I agree with Fernando, but depending on what you expect from the experience or how long you plan on living there will help you decide how much you should be willing to compromise to make the best of things.

The information you have given is very helpful. I just had a conversation with my fiance tonight about the job issue. He's worried that for when we get married in 2 years, what situation we'll be in since he'll most likely still be in school. It helps though that for the most part I'm not going to have the language barrier many Americans will encounter over there, but it still makes me a bit nervous! Hopefully I'll be able to find a job shortly after getting over there to put him somewhat at ease, I plan on pounding that pavement and on a few doors! (how American of me! )

Heeeeey! I've just been told I've gotten a new job too, as the Manager and the President's PA for a Dutch real state company!!! I start next Monday. About the money....let's just say that I've never earned so much before; this is really exciting!!!

Russ, we'll have to celebrate somehow!

pim

Congratulations Pim

I must say that the information given here is quite interesting. Nothing new said here for me.

As a student of languages, I can see how my degree would take me farther abroad than in the US. Languages aren't stressed here in the US at all. My being able to speak English, French, Spanish and understanding Italian and Portuguese has really helped me in a bind when trying to communicate with others. Those who want to move to Madrid, should have at least intermediate Spanish, that being a level where they can ask questions and respond with some mistakes, but it doesn't stop the listener from understanding what they are trying to say.

There are plenty of language academies around Madrid that can help you learn Spanish because they use the total immersion method. Like I tell my students, once you are around Spanish, it becomes second nature to you. Never say that you are too old to learn a foreign language. Any one can learn when he or she is set on learning.

As far as salaries go, I am interviewing for one job in June where I will be paid more there than I am here. I know that I can live off of that salry because I have saved money to pay on my student loans while I live there. I am single, don't want a wife or kids, just want to live alone and enjoy life.

Go to Spain with the attitude that you will learn Spanish and that you will make your salary work for you. Madrid is so much cheaper than the US. Much cheaper than Richmond, VA.

Have a great day,

Shawn

CONGRATULATIONS! to LiM and Pim....

'Glad to hear the great news...I'll have to celebrate with you guys the next time I get to Madrid!

Wyndy

Hooray, pim!!! Congratulations!!

I do understand the issue of comparing apples and oranges when it comes to salary issues in Spain...my husband and I were looking at jobs in Ireland last fall, and the salaries were very different there too, of course. But when we started looking at homes and other costs, we realized that taking much of a cut in pay might mean a dramatic change in standard of living...maybe a more dramatic one than we could handle!

Here's our current situation--we live in a fairly large metropolitan area, own a small (by local standards--it's about 1200 square feet) home, drive two small older cars, have a child in public schools with after-school daycare, don't have cable TV or other expensive subscription costs (well, the computer's cable modem...but that's essential!), try to eat organic (which is more expensive than processed food), and don't buy many non-essential items. We have some student loan debt, and our mortgage, but don't owe on our cars or other things. In our city, with a very tight rental market, it's cheaper (about $800 a month) to own our house than it would be to rent a 2-bedroom apartment. If we moved to Spain, we would probably give up one or both cars, switch to renting, and change very little else (there aren't all that many additional corners to cut).

The problem is that, having worked here in the US and been "assigned" a "value," it's hard to do the mental math to be able to handle a sharp decrease in salary. For example, let's imagine that I make $50,000 here in the US (in my dreams; I'm a graduate student!). Translating that into Euros takes me to a "comparable" (on paper) salary of 53,290 Euros. From what people have said here, of course, I know that's unrealistic.

BUT, I also know that living in a city is expensive and that would make me really worried about taking a salary of less than half of what I currently make! And if I check the cost of living indices online, I see that Minneapolis (and Seattle and Denver) are about 72 on a scale where NYC is 100, and Madrid is 58. Madrid's cost of living isn't half of mine here in Minnesota, so now the salary differences are really worrisome...and then the question arises, what can I live without? What will I HAVE to live without?

And that's where it gets scary...I can live without cable TV and without owning my own home, but I can't live without food, insurance, occasional trips home to the US, etc. And who knows how much those add up to be?

I wouldn't make the move to another country (or city for that matter) without realizing that the costs will be different and that I will have to make choices about how to allocate resources...but reading up on costs of living in Madrid isn't encouraging!! I am sure the costs in other parts of Spain are lower (and I don't think I would want to live right in the city unless work required it), but still!! It's scary!

Congratulations Pim! Woohoo! I can't imagine that I'll have any time for celebrating soon... but I'll raise my virtual glass to you for our good fortune! Y pienso que tienes razon, Alex ha traido mucho suerte. Es un angel, entonces, tiene sentido. ;-)

Fernando! I'm definitely trying my best to live like the Spanish do. I don't generally [censored] at how low the salaries are here to my coworkers and in-laws, but a BBS for English speakers interested in Spain is a great place for me to vent. It keeps me from snapping and screaming at people here in English. I understand that it could be worse... at least I'm not in Germany, right?

MM, et al.: Thanks for the congrats! The money thing is definitely one of those things that takes some getting used to. But I don't think that everyone should get the idea that all the people in Spain are living on $25,000 a year. They do have a large middle class here, so the majority of people are not rich, however, there are many, many people who are driving Mercedes and BMWs and it's not all "old money."

The thing here is that if you are a manager (director) you can earn serious cash. My friend Diego at Terra is earning around $70,000 a year because of when he was hired, who he knew and the fact that he's a manager of a group of programmers. In the tech companies I've worked at in the U.S., project managers were considered important, but not MORE important than the programmers (except maybe if they were really senior or owned the company or something). One person organized, the other produced. Many times the programmers earned much more than the managers. Here it would never function like that. It's all about being The Man In Charge. I give you orders (you pion), so therefore I get paid more. Go figure. So if you're a manager/director, you get a bigger salary, the company car (a perk I forgot to mention at the first company - after 3 years they take over your car payments for you on a new car), and you dress in the 3 piece suit and go to lavish lunches with wine every day, etc. You know how many banks are in Madrid? Too many. You think they actually do any work in those places? Nope. It's just filled with middle managers earning good money.

That reminds me of the other thing that I forgot:

9) It's all about who you know. Both to get the job and to go up the corporate ladder.

This is true in the U.S. to some extent, but it's also a general rule that you can earn an average of a 15% pay increase by moving laterally into another company. Here, however, seniority is much more important than your skills or your job, so moving laterally only makes you less important, so no one ever leaves their jobs and coming to a job as a new recruit means you're treated like crap and paid the same.

The BIG question in my life right now is what to do in the next few years. 30-35 are the prime earning years and being here earning so much less than I could at home is ridiculous. Do I stick around here and hope that in a couple years I can work myself into a manager position to earn some decent money so I can save for our futre (education, braces, etc.)? If I could do that, the benefits would be great: Longer vacations, less bills, less health costs, less food costs, etc. This entails that I could deal with Spanish culture and learn the language well enough to advance in a company. Oof. No lo se.

But the other big maybe is going to the U.S. My wife's English is not good enough for her to land a job right away. For the first year or so she'll probably take classes and take care of the Little Prince. So that means that if we go back to the U.S., I'll have to earn enough to pay for all the additional expenses and save money. Moving expenses, mortgage, cars, health, bills, etc. etc. Going to the U.S. is a one way street until you're completely out of debt. You can't come back to Spain saddled with American-style debts. It just won't work. If we return now so I can earn some decent cash, we won't be coming back for a decade or more except for visits.

To keep extending my anxieties to pure philosophy: Will life at home with more money mean a better life? That's a real question. I can't imagine having a ton of expenses and bills, both my wife and I working like crazy, fighting traffic in two unpaidfor cars while our latchkey kids whom we never see, come home to an empty house from some random public school in California where they are getting a great education in Gangster Rap and Gap commercialism. That would suck worse than the four smokers in an elevator like I had this morning.

But then again, I can't imagine my kids growing up in Spain, learning how to swear like a sailor and smoke at age 11, thinking of women as inherently inferior and considering Jamon Iberica and fried calamaris the finest food on Earth.

Tara, I just saw your post (just about to post this monstrosity and wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything.) The advantage of living here in the city is that you don't need a car at all and everything is really convenient. There are no suburbs like the U.S. here, so if you don't live in the city, it's not like you're going to have your own house nearby. Outside the city are just more apartment buildings, just placed in open fields instead of conveniently place in a city neighborhood with close access to everything. If you DO live in a little town like Becky, you'll need a car and have a hellish commute. Sundays are as quiet as any day in the 'burbs (or maybe quieter) and the month of August Madrid is like a ghosttown. The mortgage on our one bedroom in the Tetuan district is about $400 a month which is pretty reasonable. We don't have satelite television (the European equivalent of cable - no such thing here) but we do have Canal+ which costs about $30 a month. You'll definitely need/want health insurance, but the cost of healthcare here is substantially lower than in the U.S. (as is the quality) so that won't be a big cost. But what about savings? That's what I'm worried about right now... not just surviving, but putting cash in the bank for later.

Is anyone still reading this? Here Madrid Man, here's several chapters for your books.

-Russ

Hey LiM thanks! Boy, I can only imagine how busy (and excited) you are these days!

I have two comments to make:

-Little Prince Alex is half Spanish so that may mean he won't wear braces after all, don't you think?
-I'm Spanish and I don't smoke OR swear!

On another note; I was ecstatic to learn yesterday that they're renting a 'buhardilla' in my building, only even smaller than mine and facing the interior side of the building instead of the exterior like mine, for 575euros! Wow! that's a lot of money! I was SO FORTUNATE to buy mine when I did! The prices the last four years have gone up tremendously!

I'm interviewing also and can back up what Russ said about the interviews. Unfortunately I've found that in New York it functions essentially the same way... it's just selling yourself, fortunately my Spanish is passable enough for that. Without command of the language it would be very very difficult - however I have interviewed at a couple places that offered to do it in English (I said no). I also think being an IT person from the States is a little bit of a plus, if only a bit.

I think I've found something however it still needs to be confirmed (they told me that I had the job but they had to meet about the 'presupuesto'), so this being Spain I am not being optimistic nor pessimistic about actually receiving the oferta - we'll see.

Salaries have gone down in the IT business a bit though!

Oh and pim where's that atico??

So, I pose a question. For a non IT professional with experience in Marketing/Public Relations, Bilingual Spanish/English, what is the job outlook?

Fernando,

You are right we should all struggle to put things in perspective and overcome being ethnocentric. Some things however are unjust regardless of where they take place. Discrimination against a "qualified" job applicant based on age is wrong.

(" Don't be surprised when they ask you your age. I turned 30 in January. They're looking for young programmers here for some reason (right out of college) and aren't particularly concerned that those guys usually don't get the job done. Feeling old")

It may be legal but it does not make it right and to justify it by using culture as an excuse to allow it is a fallacy.

My point is that it is possible to go beyond being ethnocentric, suspend judgment and find things that are wrong or unjust in any society.

David

You know, I spend a week working my butt off (not to earn $25k I´ll have you know...ohh noo...muuuch less!) without time to read the posts indepth and it seems like a ton of great things have happened here to two of my favorite posters (don´t get jealous! I have lots of favorites!! hee hee)..

LIM and PIM!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!! I am looking forward to going out and celebrating with both of you, despite my hellish commute (which isn´t so hellish yet...just waiting for summer to hit full swing and I have to deal with the commute without airconditioning!!).

I have some addendums to LIM´s post... particularly with regards to the interview process. Will post them this weekend.

Espe3, with regards to your question....DISMAL at best. Unless, of course, you are happy earning $10K (if you are lucky). Try searching infojobs.net to get an idea.

Oh, and by the way, José María Áznar (president of Spain), I was told, earns 12 million pesetas a year. That works out to be about $65k... a little more that what I was earning in the USA before I headed off to Spain. As LiM said, funny how life is. So I´m not earning as much. Who cares. I love my life here. I love the idea of having a job that I can control...not one that controls me (LiM might argue with me on that one )

And someday, I will trade in my 10 yr old 3rd hand car and we will own a home outside of the city!!

P.S. Russ, there are suburbs around Madrid. I work in them and boy are they frightening! Check out this post about the Suburbs of Madrid !

Lost in Madrid,

Thanks for your candid analysis of the life/job market in Spain. I think most all of us here on this board struggle almost on a daily basis with the issues of a life in Spain vs. a life here in the U.S. Asking the same questions, will I be able to save money?, What about my children/family?, Am I willing to sacrafice quantity($) for quality(life)?

It is somehow comforting to hear your own account of how you are dealing with those same issues, and to see how successful it has been for you.

Thanks.

BK

Hey LiM and pim - congratulations! and we have our collective fingers crossed for your potential new position, Asterault.

Had to laugh when I saw Chica's one word response to the availability of pr/marketing positions in Spain . Not really any different than anywhere else - advertising/public relations/broadcasting etc. are all "considered" glamour jobs and therefore usually difficult to get and usually underpaid. Ask any of us that have worked in those fields!

Russ - loved your posts about the interview process and your take on it. Some great insights - thanks for sharing!

Espe3, et. al.

Here is some more information about salary levels here in Spain just to give you an idea.

Straight from the horse´s mouth...

One of my English students is a director (i.e. reports to the President) of the Spanish headquarters of an American multinational (did that make any sense to you?).

This morning we chatted about salary levels in Spain and the USA. He has lived in the USA and is familiar with the salary levels there.

This is pretty much what he told me (for marketing/PR) .. per year:

1-5 yrs experience 3-4 million ptas ($16K - 22K)
5-7 yrs exp. (manager level) 5-8 million ptas ($27K-$43K)
10-15 yrs exp. (director level) 8-12 million ptas ($43K - $65K)
National President of the multinational - upwards of 30 million pts ($162K)

Remember, these are salary levels for an American multinational in Spain -- the national headquarters. Jobs at these companies are extremely extremely competitive. In the area of Marketing/PR a Spaniard, then European, would probably be preferred over an American simply for the familiarity with the market and cultural tastes in advertising. It´s a whole different ball game here.

With those salaries, you can get a good idea of what you are facing, particularly if you aren´t so "fortunate" to be working for a multinational.

Oh, and to dispell any myths, in this particular company, they work their butts off...they are often in the office from 8:30am until 9 or 10pm. Their English class consumes an hour and a half of their two hour lunch. My classes there become counseling sessions!!

Thank God I am out of that rat race!

Chica! Just got your message! So, it gives me hope! Especially if I get lucky and get a job at such a place, I'm skipping the English classes! There are a few places that I've researched and think I'd have a very good chance, but I won't know for sure until I get over there. i know I'll have some learning to do (i'm in the 1-5 year range, and experience is stateside) but I'm very familiar with the market over there.. and will only become more so with time. For now I'm not going to sweat it! I'm still working on my paperwork (which is making me sweat quite a bit! ARGH!!!!!!!) Thanks for the extra info though! VERY helpful!

LostInMadrid, congratulations with the job and thanks for the information (also to the rest).

How coincidental, I sent an application to Telefonica R&D a week ago or so, and am waiting for a reply (if they will send me any...)
I almost have my masters degree, but, like MM said, people with a degree but without experience are not in favour. Altough high potential, at the moment i can (practically) only do some applied physics and acoustics, which is not exactely what the market is screaming for.

LiM, how is Telefonica R&D doing? The most R&D companies in the telecom scene seem to prefer getting rid of people instead of hiring them...
If it is all about knowing the right people, maybe you can have a good word for me, no? ( hehe), then you will be my manager and rise on the salary scale in no time :p !

Maarten

Hello, what an interesting topic, I only have a different opinion about one of the things LiM said, moving laterally from one company to another can increase your salary (in my case more than 50%). This is very normal in IT when you beguin working in a big company, you beguin with a small salary and when you get experience they want to keep you with a salary under the ones the market offers. Now, it's not a good time to find a good salary.
About the ledder, I agree, arrives a time when the only way to increase your salary is to become a manager, and I think this is a mistake, people who are good programming for example, could be bad managing, and the boss can loose a good worker if he want to compensate him his god labour...
One good new, the Government will forbide to smoke in work places and some other places in one year more or less.

So I got the job I was after, it's next to the Bernabunker and I start early July. Now I just have to get a place to live and haul all my stuff down to Madrid! Yay!

Asterault, you're going to be working next to the Santiago Bernabeu stadium? I work across from it (started at the beginning of this month and love it!)

Pim, Asterault...I also work next to the stadium 3 days a week... Castellana, 130 (in La Estrella Seguros building). We´ll have to get together for lunch some day!!

Congrats on the job Asterault! Good luck with the move. I remember when we moved from Gandía to El Espinar (Segovia) in October. Ugghhh!! Don´t want to repeat that again any time soon!!

I will be starting July 1st and living on C/Hortaleza. A lunchie is in order.

Becky I think someone stole your phone cause I called it and some guy answered...

Calle de Hortaleza in Madrid?!?!?! Really? What, are you taking a permanent room at Hostal Chelo ? Congratulations on your new job, Asterault!

Gosh, this is an interesting topic! It's so far off from what I'm used to preaching about(teaching English in Spain!!!)

I have a question for Chica or LIM, or ANYONE that may know the answer: my husband is a Solaris Systems Adminstrator (he's Spanish and from Madrid, but we live and work in the USA now). WHat do you think a salary would be for that line of work, for 10 years experience working in USA and Spain??? I am SOOOO curious to know as we may move back...SOME DAY. When we left in 1998, he was actually working as a Java programmer for 100.000 pts/month. We thought we were RICH...

Anyway, I'd be interested to know.

Thanks!!
tracy

Tracy--

Asterault and LIM are more qualified to answer the question for you...I am teaching English here! (P.S. love your site by the way)...

100,000 pts a month seems terribly low. When I first arrived here, I was offered a regional fundraising position here for 85,000 a month plus commission. Needless to say, I turned it down. I do much better than 100,000 a month teaching English!

Asterault? LIM? Hello? :p

He might make 5/6 million a year, with 10 years experience. The market now is a bit weak though.

Toss a CV into infojobs.net and see what bites.

Thank you all for your help and I'll definitely see what happens with the resume. Thanks Chica, too, for the compliment!

tracy

Hi everyone I'm new here and I've just found this very interesting conversation!

I have a question, along the same lines as Espe3, what are the chances of - an IT literate, experienced Web Designer (4+yrs), qualified Photographer, with basic Spanish sklls - finding a decent job in Spain?

I'm from and live in England, but the sun is calling and I've got to get a job in Spain! I do have a possible job offer over in Tenerife, but the hours are longer than my job now, and the pay is considerably less and by the sounds of it I'd be working my butt off. Which is not why I want to move to Spain! Ok, so I'm not fluent in Spanish, that's my downfall, but I'm learning so that shows I'm willing.

All I want to do is catch a bit of the sun while eating my tapas, is that too much to ask?!

BTW If Telefonica are looking for a Professional Creative (New Media etc), give them my email address! (Pleeeeeease!!) worpeddesign@hotmail.com

Thanks!
Jane
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