After now having lived more years of my life in the suburbs than I had the city, I was wondering what life is like in the spanish suburbs. I like the city more, just like here...but Hmm...rambling. Are suburbs like we know them just a US phenomenon??

chris

yes they do have suburbs in spanish cities.i would say madrid has alot of suburbs too for example aruelles hortaleza,to name a few.but as you said they are different from american suburbs.well your right.the difference lies in a couple of factors.first of all suburbs are smaller and thus more crowded.second aparment buildings are closer to each other than in the u.s.third and very curious fact is that they rarely have a garden or backyard that is very very common and noticable in our american suburbs. now dont the idea that theres not good recreation for the residents,because its just different.they dont have our gardens and backyards,but they do have alot of great plazas and parks to the point that they dont have to envy our gardens.in sevilla they actually have what they call patios.hope this helps your question

Chris --

In answer to your question, yes and no. Spanish suburbs (not the neighborhoods of Arguelles and Hortaleza as MikeTheMan mentions) are very similar in many ways to American suburbs, but they also have their distinct differences.

Since housing and utilities are much more expensive in Spain than comparatively in the USA, by far the most popular style of housing here are the pisos/flats. These are housed in "apartment like" buildings and often create communities of their own with common gardens, playgrounds, or swimming pools shared by and paid for the owners of the pisos. The concept of owning a piso is similar to owning a condo in the USA. It´s your house, but there are shared expenses that you have to pay for. Pisos are by far the most prevalent housing in the city of Madrid.

In the suburbs of Madrid, the housing is even MORE expensive than the city (particularly true for the northern suburbs). Generally this is where the folks that "have a little more to spend" live. Here, pisos are still common followed then by "casas adosadas" (row or townhomes), casas aparejadas (twin homes) and "chalés" or "chalets", or "casas particulares" (single homes with gardens/yards).

Frankly, I don´t care for most of the housing in the suburbs of Madrid. I refer to them as clones because developers must follow strict guidelines set forth by the individual "townships" in terms of design, size, color, building material, etc. The homes all end up looking like clones of each other.

In many of the suburbs of Madrid, they started out as small towns with unique characters of their own, but when the housing boom here in Spain started, and people started moving out to the burbs, the mass expansion (suburban sprawl) pretty much did away with any concept of town in the newly developed areas...and just like in the USA, you need a car to get anywhere, including the grocery store.

The charming concept of "quaint Europe" ... you know the image that we all have/had, small corner fruit stands, local baker, local butcher, local cheese shop, coffee shop etc... gets totally thrown out the window when it comes to the suburbs. Essentially, what I find them lacking in is culture, just like most American suburbs. The shopping, family life, entertainment, etc. gets taken care of in the huge centro comercial located in just about every town in the northern suburbs of Madrid. These centros comerciales are anchored by a hypermarket, usually Carrefour (think Wal-Mart... one stop shopping where you can buy oil for you car, clothes, and the week´s groceries and pay at the same checkout), and a McDonalds or Burger King. Many of these centros comerciales sport megaplex movie theaters (showing the latest American films), some also have videogame rooms, skating rinks, and a host of smaller stores (kinda sorta like a shopping mall on a slightly smaller scale). Because these towns "lack culture" the townships usually have some sort of "Centro Cultural".. a cultural center where residents can go to see amateur theater, take painting classes, aerobic classes, singing lessons,..whatever the center happens to offer.

The suburbs are a very popular place, but with their own challenges, particularly in public transportation. The metro does not go out to the vast majority of the suburbs, and not all the towns are located along a train line. Many depend on "interurbano" buses to take them into Madrid for their jobs. As an indication of the challenge that this can represent... this week, all the interubano bus operators (private companies with a special contract with the city of Madrid to provide scheduled routes) went on strike leaving millions (literally) of people without transportation. I commute daily to Madrid (by car)...a nice 65 km run from our town just outside the "Comunidad de Madrid" in the province of Segovia. These past two days, what normally takes me 45 minutes, has turned into a 2 1/2 hour nightmare door to door. Of those 2 1/2 hours, 2 hours of the delay started at just 12km outside the city where the most heavily populated suburbs are.

Sorry for such a long winded response, but I found your question interesting as it is one that I get alot from friends and family "back home" in the states!

Saludos!

Oye Chica:
It sounds like you're a bit disenchanted with the suburbs around Madrid. How about Pryca - where I usually buy my beer: are they still in business? There are still some Mom & Pop-type neighborhood meat-markets, greengrocers, panaderias, etc, in enclosed market-placess, at least in the close-in suburbs. I go often with (cousin) Paloma to one near her piso in Almeda de Osuna. It amazes me how orderly the queue is - never happen in Philly!
BTW
Genuardi's has chorizo but I prefer the kind I get at a'Caravela Portuguese meat market on 5th Street just north of the Boulevard. Super Fresh has Jamon Serrano pre-packaged; and you can find queso Manchego at either of those as well as Acme.
What I have yet to find is queso de cabra (Goat cheese) like they have in Liebana (Cantabria).
P.S.
I'll retract my opening comment: You're probably not ready for Schuylkill Expressway gridlock or rush hour on I-95. Maybe someone can send you a tape of AM traffic reports on KYW to play as you come down to Madrid from Segovia. Memories!!

Hola Eddie!

That´s so funny that you mentioned the KYW 1060 radio reports. Every morning, when I run into "retenciones" on the A6 I mutter under my breath why they can´t have a similar radio station here in Madrid! I do have to mention that I find the signage on the highways here in Madrid much much more informative that the ones on the Sure-kill Expressway or I-95 in Philadelphia.

The electronic signs here tell you how long the traffic jam goes until (retenciones hasta km 12, etc.), if there is a disabled vehicle blocking a lane, if it is snowing/raining/blaring sun in the next town, etc. The expressways in Philadelphia are putting that signage in, but there were not in use the past few times that I have been home.

I am very familiar with the traffic mess on the Sure-kill expressway, and knew my way around the back roads, river drives, etc to avoid having to sit and wait. Fortunately I never had to deal with the mess on I-95.

I am just as "enamored" with the Spanish burbs as I am with their American counter parts. That being said by one who was born in the city and raised in the burbs. I believe myself to be a city girl at heart, but do cherish the tranquilty of the little pueblo where we live (which is not blanda burbia). Kind of like Cheers... where everyone knows your name. And our little town definitely has character of its own... from the granite buildings, to cobblestone streets, to the errant cows who occasionally escape their pastures and decide that the grass is greener on the other side wandering the town streets.

I´ll have to tell my parents about Genaurdis and Superfresh. They loved el queso de oveja that I brought home for them the other week. Pryca doesn´t exist here anymore. It was bought out by Carrefour as was Continente.

Carrefour, Alcampo and Alcosto are three of the biggest hypermarkets here. Consum, A Día, and Mercadona are some of the better known supermarkets.

Knowing that you go to 5th and the Boulevard... have you ever eaten at Tierra Colombiana? Although it isn´t a SPANISH restaurant, I loved the Latino cuisine. You get alot of food for very little price. When I was feeling a little richer, I would enjoy an occasional Argentinian skirt steak at Pasión on 15th at Walnut. Their ceviche is to die for!

Saludos!

Understanding full well that the cost of living is higher in the city, I will draw this huge distinction between the concept of suburbs and cities in the US and Spain (and the rest of Europe for that matter):

In the US, the large cities are places in which to work, but not to live. Los Angeles, for example, has a nice core of "skyline buildings", but no one lives in them (not most of them, anyway). Anyone who's seen the 10, 60, 405, 210, 110, 710, or 101 freeways in the morning and afternoon realizes that our cities are workplace destinations, not living quarters. The reverse (for the most part) is true in Spain. Where the US builds out, Spain builds up. This is why the concept of a metro or bus system works. In LA, you can take the train, but it's still an hour in from your house...

This is less the case in NYC, Boston, and DC (to name a few), as these cities are replete with people who a) live in town, and b) don't need or own a car, due to the proximity to and abundance of public transportation. Remember, however, that these cities were the first large cities in the US, and were founded, for the most part, by European immigrants who modeled them after what they knew.

As for Shoreview, MN, I've been there, and it is definitely ALL suburb, baby...

I can tell you where the 'retenciones' will be in Philly every day. Belmort exit at Manayunk, between the Zoo exit and the 30th St exit, and then where Blue Rt. meets the Schuykill! Every day I went on that thing for a long time.

Fortunately in Spain I walk to work, though if I go to Madrid that will likely change

Things have changed a bit, Asterault: Major work on 202 in the Valley Forge / King of Prussia area have made that a major bottleneck. I-95 is also undergoing reconstruction between Bridge street and Allegheny. So it's not just the Schuylkill!

Chica writes: No. I usually go north on 5th to buy chorizo or morcilla at A Caravela or the other Portuguese grocery next door. We also try to dine at Ilhas Berlengas or one of the other Portuguese restaurants (there's another just off 5th & Tabor) in that neighborhood, especially when they feature Leitao Asado

Asterault --

You forgot the Conshohocken curve!

Here in Madrid, I can tell you where the retenciones are coming down the A-6 into the city. The first is in Las Rozas where cars merging on the right try to cut all the way across to get into the VAO lane (vehiculo de alto ocupancia). Then in Majadahonda/Pozuelo where there is a connection with the M-40. Then approaching the M-30 and Moncloa connections. Madre Mía! Lots of lane hopping to keep moving!

Asterault, when you make the move to Madrid, will you be living in the city or the suburbs?

Seeing how this thread seems to be about both Madrid and Philadelphia, I guess I'll have to jump in!

After living in 2 Madrid suburbs (Majadahonda and Villafranca) for a total of 8 years (and working in Aravaca/Pozuelo for 13 years), and then moving to the Philadelphia suburbs, where I've been now almost 6 years, I'd take the Madrid suburbs any day! I see the Madrid suburbs in a much more positive light than Chica. They're full of places to mingle with the people - parks, outdoor cafés, paseos, playgrounds, bars, stores... I'm not aware of any suburb in which you can't walk to some public place - unless you go way out, say, towards el Escorial, and I'm not sure that's as much suburb as "weekend home" area for Madrileños. (And in Villafranca we were pretty far out there!) Sure, if you need more than a bar of bread or a caña, you probably have to jump in the car, but it will still be a shorter trip than you'd have to make here in Chester County! And we're stuck with shopping centers only - not mom-and-pop places that still do exist in the Spanish pueblos within the suburbs.

As for houses being clones... When I watched the chalets adosados popping up all over the place, I thought it was a new, Spanish idea. Boy, was I naive!! They're all over the place here! Row upon row of identical townhouses, going for ridiculous prices, and with NO convenience store or café/bar, and very little in the way of public parks and playgrounds... And then there's Toll Bros. Here in Chester County it has become impossible to buy a new house for less than $350,000, thanks to Toll Brothers builders. A new house is also an exact replica of thousands of other "McMansions" just like it popping up all over - enormous palaces on tiny little lots.

Whenever I need to buy something quickly, I have to get in the car and drive at least 10 minutes, go through numerous stop lights or 4-way stop signs, (give me some traffic circles!), and park in a huge parking lot. I have no choice. I DID have a choice in the Madrid suburbs. There are plenty of small stores scattered throughout. (Oh, all right, the Wawa is 5 minutes away -driving!)

To sum it up, I think the Madrid suburbs are still more community oriented, friendly places than their counterparts here, at least in the area I live in now. (I lived in northern NJ for years and loved it there.) I'd go for less private space and more well-thought-out parks and family-friendly green public space.