Please, Fernando, tell us why do you think that your government doesn't respect the laws of Spain.Please explain it with facts.

Do you think that PP is supporting your ideas? If the answer is yes, please, also prove it.

Our "non spanish" friends could be very impressed with your afirmations about the political situation in Spain. But, be careful , if you want to be respected and listended in the future in this community. Your apocalyptical view of Spain doesn't reflect the actual situation, and sooner or later they will tire of it.

Sounds like this is turning into kick Fernando week. Lets'ease off of Fernando and stick to the issue.

Never mind DD, as long as I'm asked to give arguments I don't mind to be named

Booklady: The name of the Culture Minister is Carmen Calvo. This is the same woman who promised some artists (singers, movie's directors and acthors) public funds for their support in winning the elections, and the woman who made the political decission of dividing the Spanish Civil War National Archive in Salamanca to pay catalonian independentists their support to the Government.

JasMadrid:
I thank you for calling me intelligent and mature, but I don't share your view of the problem. I don't govern Spain, the decissions are made by our president. It is him who are tensioning our society. Wasn't he who demanded "dialogue" to Aznar?

Sdavidr said:
1) The Government abrogated the PHN law (Hidrologic National Plan) and didn't comply with the contracts the state had to build water channels.

2) The Government didn't comply with the LOU (University Arrangement Law).

3) The Government didn't comply with the Political Parties Law by letting PCTV-EHAK (the new name of ETA's political party) participate in the elections and have representation in the Basque Parlament.

4) The Government has approved a law that rules marriage between homosexuals that is clearly inconstitutional (the Constitution states that a marriage is between a man and a woman).

5) The Government has impelled a statute for Catalonia that has at least 50 points for which it is inconstitutional.

6) The Government is going to approve a journalism law that is clearly inconstitutional. The Constitution specificly forbids the existence of Honor Courts and states expression freedom in all media.

7) The Government has abrogated Plan Galicia, which had 12,000 million euros of investments already licensed.

8) The Government has not trialed the president of the Basque Parlament for not complying with a verdict of the Supreme Court for not disolving ETA's party.

9) The Government has unilaterally broken the Agreement for Freedom and Against Terrorism it had with Popular Party.

10) An ERC (extreme-left catalonian independentists) congress-man has violated the private property of the director of El Mundo newspaper menacing him and injuring a bodyguard in an effort to put presure on him.

And they have recently prived the Victims of Terrorism Association from public funds in an effort to easy negotiations with ETA.

Of course, as most populist and socialist countries, they disguise it dressing it as an improvement of our democracy. They show themselves as the only true democrats... while they don't comply with the law and the Constitution.

Fernando

Fernando said "Section 32 of Spanish Constitution
1. Man and woman have the right to marry with full legal equality.

2. The law shall make provision for the forms of marriage , the age and capacity for concluding it, the rights and duties of the spouses, the grounds for separation and dissolution, and their effects."

Where is your statement in our constitution? Homosexual marriages have no constitutional guarantee.So, they can not protest if the PP revokes the law in some future. But if there is a law , they can be married because the constitution says nothing about what is a marriage.

Also , I'm pleased to discuss with you the 50 unconstitutional points that you have found in the
new proposed catalan statute. The term "nation" has been discussed before so let's try to say other points.

Article 32.1 states that a man AND a woman have the right to get marriage. Of course as anything it is subject of different opinions, but experts (General Committee of the Judicial Power, the State's Committee and judges of the Constitutional Court) believe that it is not constitutional.

I'm not going to discuss 50 issues here, head to El Mundo newspaper, which is going to analize the whole statute.

Anyway, if you want a sample read any newspaper (other than La Vanguardia, El Periodico or El Pais, which don't write about it and believe everything is beautiful like Alice in Wonderland):

www.elmundo.es

Fernando

I'm agree with you when you say PSOE has not made things quite well. But PSOE is respecting the spanish law.

PSOE has made a mediatic policy but with poor effectiveness. Homosexual marriages can be permitted by law, but is STRONGLY RECOMMENDED to change the constitution to have a great effectiveness and a good support from spanish society. PSOE has forgotten that.

And I also hope PP could be more relaxed. It will be good for Spain if PP takes part of the political situation and doesn't maintain their "white or black" position.

This can also be portrayed to the catalan statute.

I will not be drawn into a discussion of the various points mentioned here, but I feel I should point out that Spanish democracy is healthy and debate is lively. There is no danger of a second civil war - much as some would relish the prospect.

Just to see if I make you bite the hook Barry

I have given arguments for which I think what I think. I believe that the idea of "hey, never mind, it is not that grave, everything is ok" falls by its own weight.

It is of the deepest gravity when a theorical democracy don't respect its own laws. You start to not comply with some laws, continue by making laws that cut people's right, and end in a proto-dictatorship or in a civil war.

Have you seen any other first world country not complying with one of its own laws????

Fernando

Fernando

Fernando, you have not given any arguments. All you have done is telling us what your opinion is, that's all.

You say it is Zapatero who is tensioning our society. Well, I say it is both PSOE and PP who are tensioning the society. An argument as good as yours.

You say the government didn't comply with the contracts to build the water channels... Whenever there is a new government, some contracts are stopped because they don't fit in their political program. It is not that the government didn't comply, they paid the money stated in the contracts. It is not my opinion, it is a fact, because I was working on one of those contracts and we got paid the money we were owed. Same goes to Plan Galicia, by the way. Even though I am against both those decissions, you can't say they didn't respect the law, they did just as any party does when they reach the government. When Aznar won his first elections (I voted him) another contract I was involved in (a new railway access to Navarra) was stopped too.

So please Fernando. You have the right to say our government is doing a very poor job. You have the right to try to gain the next elections and change all those bad decissions. But have in mind that the government we have is the legal government of our country. You might not like their actions, just as myself, but I am sick of all the people who calls to insurrection whenever the government is doing something they are opposed to.

JasMadrid, the Hidrologic Plan was a law, as well as Plan Galicia. Are you saying that the Government has payed 25,000 million euros and no infrastructures have been developed?

What about the other laws I mentioned JasMadrid? Are also just "Fernando's opinions"?

As for the catalonian statute, I'm not the only one who thinks it is inconstitutional:

- General Félix Sanz Roldán, chief of the spanish army
- Álvaro Rodríguez Bereijo, former president of the Constitutional Court
- Felipe González, former president of Spain (PSOE)
- Manuel Chaves, president of PSOE (socialist party) and president of Andalucía
- Juan Carlos Rodríguez-Ibarra, president of Extramadura (PSOE)
- Leopoldo Barreda, president of Castilla-La Mancha (PSOE)
- Emilio Pérez-Touriño, president of Galicia (PSOE)
- José Bono, Defense Minister (PSOE)
- Rafael Simancas, president of Madrid's PSOE
- Jaime Caruana, chairman of the Bank of Spain
- Cándido Méndez, president of UGT trade union (socialist trade union)
- Jose María Fidalgo, president of CCOO trade union (comunist trade union)
- Jose María Cuevas, president of CEOE (confederation of business organizations)
- Francisco Vázquez, mayor of La Coruña (PSOE)

...and of course, the Popular Party (PP).

I have not questioned the legality of the Government. But remember that Zapatero questioned the legitimacy of PP's government and its decissions over Iraq's War. Who is tensioning the political climate?

It is ZP who has supported an inconstitutional catalonian statute. Not PP, which has no responsability in the Government.

The Popular Party (PP) is not perfect, and I don't share the 100% of their ideas and statements. But in this I fully support their positions against a irresponsible and revolutionary president.

Fernando