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#83108 - 10/04/05 09:13 AM
Spanish military states opinion on Catalan Regional Statute
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Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 111
Loc: Florida
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Wow - Spain's Chief of Staff actually issued a statement claiming that Spain's military officer Corp. was in favor of a unified Spain and not one that would be created if the Catalan Statute was passed. Military chief of staff Félix Sanz Roldán warned yesterday that among army officers "there is a great interest so that Spain will continue being the common and indivisible fatherland of all Spaniards." Can that be? Did the military actually issue a not very veiled warning to Catalunya and to PM Zapatero that it wouldn't permit a Catalan statute that approached something akin to independence?? It isn't common for the military to make statements regarding political movements in Spain, is it?
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Eso no es el pito que debes tocar
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#83110 - 10/04/05 10:47 AM
Re: Spanish military states opinion on Catalan Regional Statute
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Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 111
Loc: Florida
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yeah..amazing isn't it? He is the Chief of Staff. U R right..dang brave of the man - this is starting to sound more like 1936 than 2005, doesn't it?
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Eso no es el pito que debes tocar
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#83111 - 10/04/05 10:59 AM
Re: Spanish military states opinion on Catalan Regional Statute
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Member
Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 553
Loc: Desert of Arizona
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That is how things like that get started. It will be interesting to see how Zap handles this. If Zap has control of his military those men will be put out to pasture within the next few days. If not.............
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Phantom Man
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#83112 - 10/04/05 02:12 PM
Re: Spanish military states opinion on Catalan Regional Statute
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Member
Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 49
Loc: Barcelona
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The true is that he hasn't said that. He has said the same thing that says the spanish constitution.
"Section 8
1. The mission of the Armed Forces, comprising the Army, the Navy and the Air Force, is to guarantee the sovereignty and independence of Spain and to defend its territorial integrity and the constitutional order." No more.
In the new statute there is no word of independence. The term "nation" is referred as a improvement over the last definition of Catalonia:"Nationality". But it is only a linguistic change. I think there is no problem with that, because in the next statement of the "new catalonia statute" says that: "Catalonia is a Self-governing Community inside Spain".
In the next few months, you will see a lot of discussions about that. Some of them will be very dramatic. Don't be scared.
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#83113 - 10/04/05 03:16 PM
Re: Spanish military states opinion on Catalan Regional Statute
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Executive Member
Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
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In fact it is to be scared.
When a military chief and the presidents of the Constitutional Court and the Supreme Court have to state such basic issues something very grave is happening.
This statute clearly surpass the Spanish Constitution in the letter and the spirit, trying to claim rights which are exclusively for the central state, ruling over issues for which the Catalonian Parlament don't have legitimacy, and virtually stating independence from the rest of the country.
According experts, there are at least 50 issues in which this draft of statute goes against the Spanish Constitution, not the least important the term of "nation" with which it defines Catalonia. It is not just a linguistic change, it has a very defined meaning developed through the statute.
Believe it or not: we are on the verge of the II Spanish Civil War, I'm (sadly) sure of it.
Fernando
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#83114 - 10/04/05 04:59 PM
Re: Spanish military states opinion on Catalan Regional Statute
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Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 111
Loc: Florida
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It is so odd that a province would feel the need to state anything similiar to "nation or nationality" in a political document.
It can be difficult for an American to work through the linguistic nuances. The only way for us to try to understand the situation would be to apply a parallel analogy in the U.S.A.
If the state of North Carolina said in its state Constitution, "....the nation of North Carolina...." or "....those that enjoy being of North Carolinan nationality........" we, in the U.S.A, would wonder what the heck they thought they were trying to say.
Thanks for the feedback guys - - the kind of statements coming out of Barcelona makes one wonder if, some day in the future, one would need a Catalunan visa to visit Barcelona after visiting Madrid.
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Eso no es el pito que debes tocar
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#83115 - 10/04/05 09:03 PM
Re: Spanish military states opinion on Catalan Regional Statute
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Executive Member
Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 1664
Loc: U.S.A.
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This came from the International Herald Tribune, I selected just part of the article, because it is long:http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/28/news/spain.php Catalonia steps up to challenge Spain
By Renwick McLean International Herald Tribune
THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 29, 2005
Zapatero first made that pledge in 2003, before he became prime minister, in an effort to help a Socialist candidate in Catalonia, Pasqual Maragall, court votes from residents eager for more autonomy from Madrid, according to Miley.
"It made sense at the time," Miley said, since few people expected that Zapatero would win the general election in 2004 and would have to make good on his promise.
Everyone was expecting the incumbent Popular Party to win, Miley said. Instead, Zapatero won a surprise victory three days after the March 11 train bombings in Madrid, and Catalans are now calling on him to be true to his word.
Some members of Zapatero's government have already begun suggesting that the Socialist Party may back away from this commitment.
"We are not going to approve something that is bad for Spain even if it's constitutional," Jordi Sevilla, the minister of public administration, told reporters last week.
The Catalan proposal has presented Zapatero with other problems. His majority in Parliament relies on the support of a leftist party from Catalonia called Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya, which may abandon him if he takes a tough stand against the Catalan request for greater autonomy.
While he could continue governing without the party's support, he would need to find other allies in Parliament to approve his legislative priorities.
The conservative Popular Party, the main opposition group in Parliament, has already begun portraying Zapatero as a compromised leader who would allow Spain to be Balkanized in order to win his political goals.
... 
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The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.
--St. Augustine (354-430)
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#83117 - 10/05/05 08:31 AM
Re: Spanish military states opinion on Catalan Regional Statute
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Executive Member
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 399
Loc: London
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It would be interesting to hear comments from a Catalan or Basque here who supports independence (I know we once had Ignacio, but he upset people by seeming to support terrorist and extortion activities).
My question to them (and it may seem a minor point) is Why has there never been a popular movement to get Barcelona FC (or Athletic Bilbao) to withdraw from the Spanish La Liga? After all if you feel that you would be in a better position outside of the Spanish state, surely your nation would demand separate sporting organisations? It does seem to me that a major sporting force such as Barcelona FC would have been a mere shadow of its current self if it played Girona, Espanyol and Stiges every week.
I do understand however that for a long time the Basque clubs did not sign players who were born in other parts of Spain.
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