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#83158 - 01/07/06 09:28 AM Re: Spanish military states opinion on Catalan Regional Statute
pippo Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/03
Posts: 95
Loc: tarraco
Well, I think Zapatero has just made the right decision: arrest and fire that military general.
On the other hand this only proves in which situation is puted this country by the incompetent Zapatero.

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#83159 - 01/07/06 10:29 AM Re: Spanish military states opinion on Catalan Regional Statute
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
The Government has done its duty, but that doesn't hide how extraordinarily grave it is that members of the army had made such statements. And not without a reason.

This general was only a couple of months of his retirement, so he had nothing to lose. And what is even more interesting: he was appointed by the socialist government (perhaps because they thought he was of their tendencies).

Fernando

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#83160 - 01/10/06 09:16 AM Re: Spanish military states opinion on Catalan Regional Statute
Mago Merlin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 21
Loc: Dublin
Quote:
one of the worse atacks to the freedom of speech (...)
The Law's name is "Comunication Law"
Big mistake from CAC, in my opinion. What is to fear about freedom of speech if you have arguments?
I don't agree with many things from COPE. Fair enough. I am free to argue. But everybody should be able to speak, even if you don't like it.
In the same way, whether we like what they say or not, newspapers, radio stations and political parties shouldn't be closed down or banned (and that has been a bigger attack in this "democracy")

Quote:
members of the army had made such statements. And not without a reason
No. The reason is in the Art. 8.
Someone mentions one of the articles in our Constitution. States that this article might be applied.
Big fuss.
This man's dismissal is applauded.
Where is the problem?
(Clue: look in the Constitution)

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#83161 - 01/11/06 06:34 PM Re: Spanish military states opinion on Catalan Regional Statute
Murdy Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 314
Loc: Madrid
By the way, I just found this today. Here are allegedly Bono's thoughts on military leaders making comments on defending the constitution and their being arrested. Sorry, it's in Spanish:

"Aspiro a decir cosas que tengan sentido común y dije, y desde luego lo reitero, que yo no puedo sentirme molesto porque un militar coja la Constitución la lea y la defienda. Que lo que me preocuparía es el militar que no quiere leer la Constitución porque está en contra de ella. Aquí en este país nos ha preocupado siempre cuando los militares no han sido constitucionalistas, pero, claro, que los militares se declaren defensores de la Constitución, pues sólo faltaría que les arrestara el ministro de Defensa por defender la Constitución, por defender la igualdad, por defender los valores constitucionales. Hasta ahí podíamos llegar."

These comments were made back in October. It may be that declarations like this led Mena to believe he could make his statement without fear of reprisal. Who knows. Regardless, the general's remarks were in the very least utterly tactless and unacceptable especially considering the average Spaniard's opinion of the military meddling in political affairs. The military did it in 1936, and tried again in 1981. The general should have known that the slightest allusion to the army getting involved would provoke this kind of reaction. There is no place for it.

Having said that, I just wish similar disgust were expressed for other acts in Spanish politics.
_________________________
www.brianmurdock.net

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#83162 - 01/26/06 11:16 AM Re: Spanish military states opinion on Catalan Regional Statute
Mago Merlin Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 21
Loc: Dublin
Article from The New York Times

Editorial
Army Troglodytes in Spain

Published: January 24, 2006

It is a basic principle of democracy that army officers do not publicly challenge the legitimacy of elected governments or talk about marching their troops into the capital to overturn decisions of Parliament. Yet that is just what has happened twice this month in Spain, a country whose 20th-century history compels it to take such threats seriously, even when the chances of insubordinate words' leading to insubordinate actions seems quite unlikely.

The response of the center-left government of Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero has been appropriately firm, including the dismissal and arrest of one of the culprits, a senior army general. Regrettably, the center-right Popular Party, the main opposition group, seems more interested in making excuses for the officers than in defending the democratic order in which it has a vital stake.

Spain's swift and smooth passage to modern democracy after the death of Francisco Franco in 1975 makes it easy to forget the horrors of the civil war and the brutal dictatorship that preceded it. Those nightmares began when right-wing army officers rebelled against an elected left-wing government they considered to be illegitimate and too deferential to regional separatists.

Spanish society, Spanish politicians and, for the most part, Spanish military officers have come a long way from that era, moderating their views and deepening their commitment to democratic give-and-take. But the Popular Party has had a hard time getting over its electoral defeat nearly two years ago, days after the terrorist bombings of commuter trains in Madrid. It has never really accepted the democratic legitimacy of that vote. It is time for the Popular Party to move ahead. Spanish democracy needs and deserves vigorous bipartisan support.

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