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#82964 - 06/07/05 05:04 PM Re: Huge Madrid rally against ETA talks
Lonoma Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 72
Loc: Sevilla, Spain.
I agree with the victims: no more negotiations with the terrorists.
Justice should be aplied to terrorist, and if they need to stay in prison, they do stay. A terrorist, a murderer don’t deserve to have the same rights as the victims. The nazionalist madness in the País Vasco and
Cataluña must stop in Spain.

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#82965 - 06/08/05 01:01 PM Re: Huge Madrid rally against ETA talks
barry Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 347
Loc: sóller, mallorca, spain
Correction: You agree with SOME of the victims

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#82966 - 06/08/05 06:35 PM Re: Huge Madrid rally against ETA talks
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
2nd correction: He agrees with the MAJORITY of the victims :p

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#82967 - 06/08/05 11:08 PM Re: Huge Madrid rally against ETA talks
Booklady Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 1664
Loc: U.S.A.
Fernando, the latest measures taken of the crowd exceeded the inital prognostication, it was close to 850,000 people, similar to some of the crowds that rallied against Spain's involvement in Iraq.

I question, what exactly is Mr. Zapatero going to dialogue/negotiate with these political assasins? If you promise not to assasinate any more innocent men, women and children, my government will give you ___? It seems to me these assassins need some type of incentive to give up their bloody life-style. Is Zapatero promising them freedom? What? Dialogue?

confused

The http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/ Wall Street Journal.com Opinion section had an article on June 7th titled the "Honey Moon is Over"
Quote:
Two years ago when Spaniards protested against the war in Iraq, then opposition leader José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero urged the government to listen to the people. And the former conservative government did indeed listen -- Spanish troops were sent to Iraq only after the major combat operations had ended.

One man's demonstrator is another man's nuisance, Prime Minister Zapatero may be thinking now. Last Saturday, around 850,000 people took to the streets in Madrid to protest against government plans to possibly open talks with the Basque terrorist group ETA. Victims of ETA attacks and their relatives led protesters carrying Spanish flags and banners reading "No negotiations in my name."

Mr. Zapatero promised that he will be "listening to the demonstrators with respect." If he did indeed listen, he should consider repealing last month's parliamentary resolution, which gave the Socialist government the authority to begin a dialogue with ETA provided the separatist group pledges to lay down its arms. By stressing that "dialogue" is not the same as "negotiation" and asserting that "violence cannot be rewarded politically," the government hoped to avoid the semblance of appeasement.

But the distinction the government was trying to make is rather academic, and the people were not buying it.
_________________________
The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.
--St. Augustine (354-430)

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#82968 - 06/09/05 02:25 PM Re: Huge Madrid rally against ETA talks
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
That's exactly the problem Booklady... what are you going to negotiate with a terrorist who is menacing you with a gun?

Is ZP going to offer something against or laws or our constitution? Can a state survive when its president breaks its own laws?

In my opinion there are few things to be negotiated: when and where they abandon terrorism and perhaps some penalty reduction benefits (specially for those who hasn't killed anyone).

We shouldn't offer a terrorist political gains. Thus, anyone who want to achieve a political objective in minority would know that killing is a mean to have it (or part of it). frown

Fernando

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#82969 - 06/09/05 02:33 PM Re: Huge Madrid rally against ETA talks
barry Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 347
Loc: sóller, mallorca, spain
I agree with you Fernando (that's a first!). There are few things to negotiate. But if ETA are considering abandoning the armed struggle there are one or two things you can give them so they can save face and justify the move to their supporters. Prison terms is one thing or moving the prisoners closer to home. You could also legalise certain political movements once again. Nobody is seriously considering giving in to their demands for independence.

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#82970 - 06/12/05 11:43 AM Re: Huge Madrid rally against ETA talks
Booklady Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 1664
Loc: U.S.A.
Well, Barry and Fernando, it does not look like ETA wants to talk to Sr. Rodriguez Zapatero!

The Guardian carried this article, Friday.
Quote:
Britons flee mortar attack at Spanish airport

Giles Tremlett in Madrid
Saturday June 11, 2005
The Guardian

A Basque separatist group attacked a Spanish airport with home-made mortars yesterday, forcing British holidaymakers to flee and apparently signalling the start of a campaign against tourist targets.

At least two mortars were fired at the airport in Zaragoza, 150 miles east of Madrid, though there were no injuries and it was unclear last night exactly where they had exploded. Police confirmed that two home-made mortar launchers had been found in undergrowth near the airport and a search was continuing last night to see if there were any more.

A Ryanair flight from Stansted was diverted to a nearby military airport after Eta issued a warning saying that there would be an attack on the city's civilian airport.

A Ryanair spokeswoman said: "The aircraft parked at a military [base] and all passengers disembarked. The passengers and aircraft remained [there] until the security alert at the airport had ended. Passengers were then coached to the terminal building."

A short while later witnesses said two mortar shells could be heard whistling through the air towards the airport.

The attack appeared to confirm police worries that Eta would carry out attacks on tourism targets this summer, despite rumours that it may be about to enter into peace talks with the Spanish government.

La Vanguardia newspaper reported last week that anti-terrorist police had increased their watch on the frontiers with France, fearing that Eta units hiding there were likely to start a campaign targeting tourist sites.

The telephoned warnings, which gave police less than an hour to evacuate the airport, indicated that Eta may, however, be taking measures to avoid killing anyone while the promise of talks hangs in the air.

Eta has killed more than 800 people during the three decades of violence since it took up arms. But a much weakened Eta has not managed to kill anyone for more than two years amid a sustained police crackdown which has taken the number of its members in jail up to 700.

The Socialist prime minister, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, said earlier this week that 178 Eta suspects had been jailed since he took office 14 months ago. Mr Zapatero repeated earlier this week that he was prepared to talk to Eta if the conditions were right. "If the government finds proof that there is a chance Eta is willing to abandon arms and stop using violence for ever, of course the government will talk to search for peace," he said.

However, a quarter of a million marchers took to the streets of Madrid last weekend to demand that there be no negotiating with terrorists.

Some observers said yesterday's attack was proof that Eta would never give up violence.

"What Eta is trying to say is that it does not want talks with anybody and will continue with its strategy of terror," said the socialist mayor of Zaragoza, Juan Alberto Belloch.

Eta has carried out attacks against tourism targets most summers for the past two decades.

Apparently, Mr. Belloch is correct, ETA is disinterested in any type of dialogue that does not give them what they want. Mr. Rodriguez Zapatero is facing a difficult situation. No dialogue will work with ETA short of recapitulation to their demands; appeasement will not work.
_________________________
The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.
--St. Augustine (354-430)

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#82971 - 06/12/05 02:57 PM Re: Huge Madrid rally against ETA talks
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Welcome to reality ZP... three bombings since ZP decided that ETA had declared a ceasefire. That's a bet for peace...

And when it became clear that ETA is not willing to abandon terrorism, what plans ZP to do? His foresighting ability is near to null.

Fernando

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#82972 - 06/26/05 04:36 PM Re: Huge Madrid rally against ETA talks
Booklady Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 1664
Loc: U.S.A.
Fernando, once again, Mr. Zapatero's talante is not convincing ETA that he can carry out their "dialogue." Thank goodness there were no casualties.

In a more mundane note do you think this will hurt Madrid's olympic chances?

Sunday, June 26, 2005 - Page updated at 12:00 AM
World Digest Seattle Times
Olympics' Spain bid site target of explosion

Quote:
A bomb exploded in the parking lot of a Madrid sports stadium that is the centerpiece of the city's 2012 Olympics bid after a warning in the name of Basque guerrillas ETA, the Spanish government said yesterday.

There were no injuries, a government statement said.

The explosion came less that two weeks before the decision is announced on which city will stage the 2012 Olympics.

ETA has killed nearly 850 people since 1968 in a bombing and shooting campaign for an independent Basque state in northern Spain and southwestern France.

eek
_________________________
The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.
--St. Augustine (354-430)

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#82973 - 06/26/05 09:35 PM Re: Huge Madrid rally against ETA talks
gazpacho Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 797
Loc: Macomb, MI U.S.
But for the grace of God.

If we had listened to the left over here, no doubt, Al Q would be picking us apart right now. Thank goodness we have a President that don't agree that counseling sessions with terroristas is effective. smile We almost had one though.

Fernando, you wouldn't believe the B.S. the man has to listen to because he deals effectively with the problem. mad

laugh I almost hope, but not really, if he called our President to ask his advice on how to handle his own terrorist, he hangs up on him. Maybe he should call Mr. Heinz.
_________________________
"I swear -by my life and my love of it -that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

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