Napoleon hahahahahaha.

Europe never looked for that US help (talking from Dutch opinion). Though The USSR was a huge world power we never saw it as the BIG danger agains our country. There is a diffrent in not agreeing in Comunism and seeing it as a world danger. I think you are over reacting. USSR was ****ed up, agains every human right there existed, but for Europe never a danger of war. The danger for us was the situation between US and USSR and Europe between it. Next to that situation there where a lot of other matters withion europe that needed our attention. Serval dictatorships, ETA, IRA and RARA....etc....etc.

Supertubbie, I strongly disagree with your statement:
Europe was in clear and present danger. Pope John Paul II, who had a complete understanding of this issue as Karol Wojtyla Bishop of Krakow, would have vehemently disagreed with you.

To begin with, half of Germany was under the Soviet Union's control. Not to mention Poland, Hungary, the Baltic countries, unless you do not think these countries were part of Europe.

If you don't believe me look at what happened in Hungary when they tried to revolt. I can tell you that the Germans were very happy that the U.S. had men stationed on their side of the border. Ask the Poles!

Whatever you say about the U.S. today, remember that during the years of the cold war it was the only bastion of strength, keeping Holland from being like East Germany, for many years, a satellite of the Soviets.

After the War most European countries could not even feed their people much less defend their borders. Your own cities were bombed out, Rotterdam was destroyed, could Holland have defended herself, if the mighty Soviets had attacked in the late 1940's, the 1950's, the 1960's? Doubtful.

Also remember that the U.S. did not stay in Europe, it left as soon as it could, with a nice little package called the Marshall Plan. The only bits of earth the U.S. has claimed has been a cemetery here and there to bury our dead.

Frankly, I think we need to bring them home.

Booklady, I know the Marshall Plan saved much of Western Europe from starvation but it was not an entirely alturistic gesture. At the end of the Second World War, the USA needed foreign markets where it could sell its good and services. Otherwise, it's own economic prosperity would be in danger as no nation can live without foreign trade. In effect, it created the markets it needed at that time in Europe. America granted Britain a loan to keep it going after 1945 but the terms and conditions of this loan were particularly harsh and it took the UK many years to pay it back.

I think it's worrying though that there seems to be a growing animosity towards Europe in the States, which has increased since the invasion of Iraq. I do believe that America helped to keep the peace in Europe after WW2 and that Europe and the USA still have a great deal in common and much to lose by turning their backs on each other.

Supertubby,

I think Booklady already stated it, but to make it plainer. The U.S.S.R. readily took over half of Europe after World War II. You don't think, do you, that it wouldn't have taken it all over given the chance? Wow.

I suppose it's just a matter of time, if they haven't already, until history is rewritten in Europe to show that the U.S. was the real author of this war.

I feel as if I had missed something...

You are mixing WWII, the Cold War, european countries' position in the Iraq War and the European Union in the same pot.

We could argue for hours on one of these topics alone, but let me said that the EU is not (yet) a political or military union.

You are judging all europeans for what Chirac and Schroeder told you, intentionally forgetting that twenty of twenty five EU countries supported Bush point of view in Iraq, including UK, Polland, Italy, Portugal and Spain.

The EU had nothing to say in that conflict since it doesn't have an army, nor a foreign affaires minister.

Even those who opposed the right, in my opinion, had the right to do so, no matter how grateful they should be for the US aid they received in the past.

Are you saying that if Bush decided to launch ten atomic bombs in Iran (for example) all european countries should back that decission becuase US defeated the nazis, delivered the Marshall Plan and protected all of us from the USSR?

As I have said... I think that I have missed something.

Fernando

Gazpacho, perhaps you should read other newspapers and watch other TV channels... I suppose the history has been already rewritten in the US to show that Europe is the evil to defeat in the XXIth century.

Fernando

Fair enough Fernando,

It's just when I hear someone like Supertubbie saying that the U.S.S.R. was never a threat to his country, that I wonder what they teach in Europe. I also worry about the philosophical base of a people who are against the overthrow of a tyrant, whereever he may exist.

I myself want to see the U.S. and Europe grow even closer, but not if that means following the leftist pragmatism of your continent. Your former leader was the epitome of the type of moral courage I would like to see more of.

Leftist pragmatism.. I thought you guys were over this mccarthyism thing. I have understood that you think high taxes etc. limit your freedom, but while I understand your point of view, I'd think you'd understand mine, which is that also the equal right to education, health care etc. regardless of what you or your family earn add to freedom. Why not let us have it our way.

I have a question for you, just out of curiosity: why Iraq? Why not free all people lead by cruel, authoritarian leaders? Why were Pinochet, Stroessner, Trujillo etc. worth your country's support? I think that's what makes some of us suspicious.

Pia: To truly understand the way that we Americans think you would have to live in the US for a couple of years. If you happen not to have a couple of years to take and live here so that you can understand us better, then get a copy of the Woodstock album from the rock concert in Woodstock, New York in 1969. There is a song on that album sums up American foriegn policy very well it is by Country Joe MacDonald titled The Fish Cheer. When you listen to that song a couple of times, then you will better understand why we think and feel the way that we do.
"now come all you big strong men, Uncle Sam needs a helping hand, got himself in a terrible jam,...

Pia,

A right to an equal education? No government could ever provide this. A right to health care? Sorry, not by our constitution, although many would claim different. We only have the inaliable rights here of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If anyone requires an equal education, (although they would be better off with a better education) or health care, it's available, provided they produce well enough to afford it.

As for why we don't go after other tyrants, why don't you ask this about your own country? Well? Lip service excluded, do you think it right that your government permits tyrants to exist? As far as the U.S. goes, one S.O.B. at a time. The Taliban is gone, Saddam is gone. When are the other free people of this earth going to step up to the plate? This is a rhetorical question. They never have, never will.