Sueco: That would be something that he would say. He has been known to have his tonge in motion before he engages his brain. I've enjoyed the dialog with you. I will check out the web site, thanks. Feel free to contact me at my E mail for private contact.

ColinK: I agree with you, I hope for the best for the EU, but I don't see it working out. Fernando made the comment that each country would have to forego some rights, and customs, and when that happens nerves start to grind, troops start to mass. Here we go.

In what way are EU members asked to give up their national identity? Finland, where I'm from, has been a member since 1996 and I definitely haven't seen that happening, not even after the euro.

Pia- the euro is one example. Very small, yes, but still an example. Correct me if I'm wrong but the whole ideal behind the EU is to put the supposed good of all its member nations ahead of the wants or needs of an individual member. That right there is a sacrifice of national identity. Isn't there also discussion of an international police force ? I'm not sure of this I just heard something about that in the past. I hope not. That is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard of.

I won't mind to give up some rights to EU for one.

• I would prefer to have a unique european police so criminals can't hide in one country.
• I like to have a common currency.
• I would like to see a common army.
• I also think that having similar laws will favour comerce.
• I think that it is great not to have comercial barriers and be able to buy or sell products in any european country.
• I like the fact that I can travel without my passport to any european country without been asked where am I going or what am I doing.
• If I ever choose to move my residence to another european country and work there I won't have to ask for a residence or working permission.
• I like to have a public health care system, unemployment secure when I'm in any other european country.
• I like that my university degree is equivalent and accepted in any other european country.
• I like to have a finance and economic aid if I wan't to course part of my university studies abroad.
• I like to be able to travel out of the EU and be able to go to any other EU embassy and be treated as if I was in the spanish embassy (specially when there is no spanish embassy in that country).
• I like that spanish companies are able to buy or be bought by european companies and run their businessess in any european country, sharing technology and other resources.
• I like... I like the European Union. Yes. Definitely. For hundreds of reasons. And I won't mind to give up an amount of sovereignity

Fernando

Good Fernando, I hope it all works out, I really do.

Fernando, I wouldn't have said it better. The European Union is not perfect at all. It does have disadvantages, as all unions have, but its advantages are much larger. Plus, giving up sovereignity does not mean giving up our national identity. The EU is rich in diversity. We do have different customs, languages, traditions.... and we love it that way.

One of you wondered what could northern europeans have in common with southern europeans... I wondered that too... until I went to the US. I had a great year, I do have quite a few really good american friends and european friends that I met there. I was surprised when I realized I had a lot more in common with those northeuropeans than I thought.

Fernando, in many ways in which you describe the European Union, I see our own United States. The facility of trade among states, no unfair tariffs to worry about when one goes from one place to another, etc.

But what binds us together is our wonderful constitution, which is much more than a series of treaties among the states. So going back to my initial question... if there is not an over-reaching constitution that sets and levels the playing field for all states, in your case, countries, how is the EU going to fare, when one country decides to ignore certain treaties?

Would they be thrown out of the Union? What happens?


Here we send the national guard if Maine decides to misbehave and go against the Constitution. what are the consequences in the EU?

Is it one of the purposes (written or not) of the EU to compete with the US? I think that the EU is awesome. However, you can argue that it will be more challenging for the Europeans to become a super power and a homogeneous country than it was for the U.S. centuries ago.

When the U.S. was "growing up" they didn't have to deal with so many languages, religions, and cultural backgrounds as the EU is today. Yes you can argue that there have been people from all over the world in the U.S. for centuries. However, the U.S. became what it is today based on a common language, common moral beliefs, slavery, and a strong sense of capitalism or entrepreneurship. The EU has to deal with much more and different complex issues today that when the 16(?) Colonies became one nation.

Maybe it is crazy, but when I think about the EU, especially its fist steps, the whole idea just sounded like the American continent was trying to become one super nation, from Alaska to the Patagonia. Here also there’s money to do it, especially in the U.S. and Canada, and countries like Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina have economies the size of many eastern European countries. And even though, the idea of one American supra state sounds today more like a dream (or nightmare) and premature, this example and not history of the U.S., gives me a better idea of what are the challenges of the European constitution. Am I explaining myself? What am I missing on this picture? (Leaving aside obvious differences, like the size of the continent and cultural-racial backgrounds).

My point is that it makes no sense to compare the U.S. to the E.U. since their time and realities are totally different.

ColinK, for me "national identity" is something that can't be threatened by a currency or an identical education system; or even by a common police force especially as the national laws and police forces will still be there. Why do you think that police force would be such a bad idea? I feel very finnish and we do have a very strong "national identity", as most european countries, but it doesn't mean we can't be europeans too.

Finland has been a member since 1995 and I really haven't felt that many negative changes in everyday life. Of course the EU has tried for example to prohibit tax free sales on boats between Finland and Sweden and our gambling monopoly (from which benefits go to important charity), but both issues have been negociable and we've been able to maintain them, which tells me that it's not at all as dictatory as some people seem to think. Overall, the negative changes have not been so important that I feel they would have made it worth missing out on the positive ones: it's really easy and cheap for me to travel, study or work in the other european countries, as Fernando pointed out well. This is very encouraged, which I appreciate knowing what a huge benefit it is to get to know different people and cultures, and it's made very easy as you don't have to go through all the procedures that many of the people here on this message board seem to be struggling with. Even the euro has been a really positive change even though I feared it wouldn't be. It's weird that people seem to think EU is some big bad imperialistic organization trying to homogenize the area. You guys should be more concerned about US policies towards for example Latin America

jbach, writes:

Jbach, it is obvious to me that you know very little about the U.S.

The U.S. is a conglomorate of people from other nations, primarily the European countries, but Asian ones as well.Immigration began well before the U.S. constitution was even a decade old! And it continues strong and heavy even now. Oppressed people from all over the world come to this wonderful country!

The U.S. cannot be described as a homogenous country, by any standard. In Miami Dade Community College, alone more than 78 languages are spoken!!!

The U.S. did not become a super power until the late 20th century.
There is no argument about it, it is a fact, we are a nation of immigrants, and proud.

For a time Spanish and French were the languages of politics and the marketplace.

I will grant you that after the U.S. became a nation English was selected as the language of choice, Spanish came in a close second. Now the language of the marketplace is English, but other languages are spoken in New York with the same fluency. Ever go to the Polish, Jewish and Chinese neighborhoods in cities like New York? Cajun, Spanish and French in New Orleans? Miami? Chicago? Key West/Cayo Hueso?

No, this is not true. Never has been! Just look at our latest election. :p

Brought to the Americas well before the U.S. became a nation by the Spanish, English, Dutch, Portuguese, French, and other European countries.
Ending it in the bloodiest civil war any country could ever have. By the way, Spain did not end its slavery in Cuba until it lost the island, 1898!

Amen, brother! Brought to us by the wonderful English immigrants. A trait which we share with other developed countries like those in Europe.

I disagree, the EU has a model to diverge from or follow, the 16 colonies were the first of their kind, the pioneers... These poeple did not have the technology that we have today. However, if you mean keeping the Germans and the French from killing each other or keeping their hands out of the cookie jar, then I agree with you!