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#82943 - 05/04/05 12:07 PM
Re: EU Constitution
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Member
Registered: 04/03/05
Posts: 134
Loc: Finland
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Wolf, where do you get that? It's pretty obvious that your view on muslims is based on TV, as the ones you see there are radical fundamentalists. The muslims I know here in the nordic countries are completely normal people who just don't eat pork, usually don't drink and if they're girls they normally don't go to the beach or other places where you tend to wear revealing clothing.
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#82944 - 05/04/05 12:32 PM
Re: EU Constitution
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Executive Member
Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 1664
Loc: U.S.A.
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JasMadrid, I believe you included me in the group that does not believe in positive assimilation. I am not among those that believe that the Muslims will not integrate in Europe. I really do not know enough about this community in Europe to make an assessment. I can only speculate based on "my own" past experience and observation of my parents who were Spanish immigrants to Cuba and my own immigration to the U.S. Personally, I believe people in general want to live well and freely without imposing their culture on others. However, Wolf does make a cogent point. Past immigrants to the U.S. did not want to make the U.S. into another copy of their homeland. If there is a group with this type of interest then there may be the posibility of a problem. In Spain the case in point is Al-Andaluz, Andalucia, certain islamic groups, still fervently believe that it should not be Spanish or controlled by Spain. Pia, your generalizations about Muslims are also incorrect. I know many muslim physicians and academicians and their families that do eat pork, drink wine and when they go to the beach they wear a bikini! While those you know may exhibit those behaviors, it does not mean that the whole population does. Be careful about those generalizations! 
_________________________
The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.
--St. Augustine (354-430)
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#82946 - 05/04/05 06:00 PM
Re: EU Constitution
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Member
Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 553
Loc: Desert of Arizona
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Booklady: When Fidel finally goes in the ground are you going to return to Cuba and see it? That place has been on my list for a long time. I have friends that have gone via Mexico City. They tell me it is great. Based on the cigars that are made in Cuba, that I have had, I am looking forward to it. Realizing of course, that there is more to a good country to visit than a good cigar.  After Castro is gone, how long do you think it will take for things to stablize?
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Phantom Man
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#82947 - 05/05/05 10:02 AM
Re: EU Constitution
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Member
Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 311
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Pia and Booklady: I think Pia is only making a generalization based on her own experience. Pia says: “the Muslims I know,” and then makes a generalization. When you say something “in general,” you are making a statement that applies to most members of a group. Obviously, there will always be exceptions, like those mentioned by Booklady. Since most Muslim dads or moms won’t buy a bikini for their teenage daughter to wear during a pork-&-wine feast at the beach, those Muslim parents that do so are only an exception. Probably, we should be more careful about pointing out who is right or wrong. As to why Latin-Americans have an easier time adapting to the U.S. lifestyle, than Muslims in Europe. First, many Latin-Americans are of European descent, especially from Spain and Italy, and consequently have Western values and lifestyles; Second, most Latin-Americans are Catholic or Christian, a very well settled religion here in the U.S., so their moral values are in accordance with those of most people living in the U.S.; Third, the U.S. is a country formed by immigrants, and some say, for immigrants. So Americans have a different attitude towards immigration. This does not mean that immigration is totally welcomed here in the U.S., however, Americans don’t feel like they are loosing their country to immigrants. Most Americans have a parent or grandparent that is/was an immigrant.
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#82948 - 05/07/05 08:27 PM
Re: EU Constitution
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Executive Member
Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 1664
Loc: U.S.A.
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Hola Desert Dweller, I really miss Cuba, but as long as Cuba is under Castro's regime I refuse to go! But as soon as Cuba is free once more, I will sure be over there. I pray that there will be a peaceful transition. The Cuban people have had 45 years of suffering, they deserve a break. Jabch, One cannot extrapolate generalizations from anecdotal observations. Anyone heard if the French have changed their mind about the EU constitution?
_________________________
The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.
--St. Augustine (354-430)
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#82949 - 05/08/05 05:44 AM
Re: EU Constitution
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Full Member
Registered: 12/01/01
Posts: 181
Loc: Cambridge UK
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Hi Booklady. France may indeed be changing its mind. According to a poll published in Le Monde on the 1st of May, out of the 63% of the French electorate who have made up their minds and intend to vote, 33% will vote yes and 30% will vote no. Interesting to see what will happen on the day!
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#82951 - 05/09/05 08:57 PM
Re: EU Constitution
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Executive Member
Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 1664
Loc: U.S.A.
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No you can't Jabch, that's fuzzy thinking! It is called a Hasty Generalization Fallacy! Silly, yes! Just read that the French actor Gérard Depardieu, has joined the "Yes" group. "Moi, je dis oui!", Me, I say yes! French mount big push for the EU constitution The Associated Press, Reuters TUESDAY, MAY 10, 2005 Voters are evenly split on whether to approve the referendum, which will be held on May 29, according to two opinion polls released Monday.
An Ipsos survey for Le Figaro and Europe 1 radio showed 50 percent plan to vote against the constitution, while 50 percent intend to back it. The group polled 936 people on last Friday and Saturday.
A separate survey by CSA, which polled 1,006 people on Saturday and Monday, showed that 51 percent planned to vote yes, while 49 percent intend to reject it. The referendum will be held on May 29.
All 25 European Union members must approve the constitution for it to take effect, so a no from France could set back European ambitions.
Depardieu said that Hugo had predicted that a time would come when a united states of Europe and the United States of America would deal and trade with each other as equals.
The actor delivered a 10-minute address at the Foreign Ministry, which threw open its gilded halls to the public for an exhibition on Europe that had the clear intent of persuading voters that the EU works.
The governing party, the Union for a Popular Movement, distributed pamphlets in train and Métro stations, and balloons were sent up in regional capitals.
A leading Socialist opposed to the charter, former Prime Minister Laurent Fabius, said Sunday that it was very probable that one of the EU's 25 countries would say no to the document.
Echoing a chief concern of those opposed to the constitution, Fabius said he believed it would compromise jobs and social protection.
"I don't want a Europe, like today, dictated by finance," he said on TFI television, adding, "We are European but we want a social Europe."
Foreign Minister Michel Barnier said Monday that he viewed Fabius's opposition as a "mystery."
Fabius headed the French government under a Socialist president, François Mitterrand, who was a major force in building a united Europe in the 1980s.
Among other things, the constitution would streamline decision-making and provide the EU with a foreign minister and a president to give it greater international influence.
The EU Commission vice president, Margot Wallstrom, said that it was not clear what would happen if France failed to approve the constitution.
"Nobody can tell exactly," Wallstrom said in Prague after meeting with the Czech prime minister, Jiri Paroubek.
"It is important that the ratification process continues" despite a possible French rejection, she said, "because both small and big member states have a right to have a say."
The Czech Republic has not yet said whether it will put the constitution to a parliamentary vote or public referendum.
_________________________
The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.
--St. Augustine (354-430)
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#82952 - 05/14/05 12:10 PM
Re: EU Constitution
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Executive Member
Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 1664
Loc: U.S.A.
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It is still too close to call.
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French Opponents of EU Constitution Hold Lead in Latest Poll
May 14 (Bloomberg) -- French opponents of the European Union constitution hold the lead in the latest opinion poll, a day after a survey showed a majority in favor, signalling the May 29 referendum is still too close to call.
Today's poll, conducted by Ifop for Web site Wanadoo.fr, showed 54 percent of 1,016 people surveyed on May 12 and May 13 plan to reject the EU's new rulebook, four points higher than a survey on May 3 and 4. A TNS-Sofres poll for Le Monde conducted on May 9 and May 10 put support for the treaty at 52 percent. Neither survey has a margin of error.
Polls throughout March and early April showed the French likely to reject the constitution, which would have killed the treaty that's meant to make European institutions work more smoothly after the EU expanded to 25 from 15 members last year. Supporters of the treaty retook the lead in late April after strong appeals from political figures such as President Jacques Chirac and former Socialist Prime Minister Lionel Jospin.
The recent dip in support is due to ``the marked return of Laurent Fabius,'' the number two in the opposition Socialist party and ``identified as the principal leader of the `no' camp,'' Ifop said. Appeals to support the treaty from Socialist Leader Francois Hollande and Nicolas Sarkozy, head of the governing Union for a Popular Movement Party, in a Monday night television debate failed to convince voters, the polling company said.
Holiday Issue
Opposition to government plans to suppress the May 16 public holiday is also boosting opposition to the treaty, Ifop said. Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin has earmarked 2 billion euros ($2.5 billion) in extra tax revenue from the suppression of the holiday to fund care for elderly and disabled people after the death of 15,000 people in France's August 2003 heat wave.
The Ifop poll showed 67 percent of those planning to vote ``yes'' and 76 percent of those planning to vote ``no'' have made up their minds.
The EU treaty, which needs approval in all 25 nations, foresees the creation of a permanent president and foreign minister, and strengthens the European Parliament. Its rejection by France could scupper both the constitution itself and Chirac's chances of running for a third term in 2007.
_________________________
The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.
--St. Augustine (354-430)
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