I agree with Puna, Fernando.

Dunno what to say

Thanks!

Fernando

I agree, sdavidr, fortunately these are the last days of ETA.

Cultural diversity is a big part of what we all love about Spain as sdavidr pointed out. And as has been discussed ad naseum, ETA is by no means representative of the Basques.

A huge differnce between cultural and political -

Thank you for all of your replies so far in this thread and others.

The only other questions I would have for all you madrileños, particularly the always articulate Fernando and Puna, is:

1.I am unclear. Do you feel that 3/11 and the early blame of ETA by spain officials ended up causing the socialist party to win?

2.Also, I have read about terrorists coming into Spain from Morrocco. Is this Al-Quada or a different group of terrorists that have been around longer.

3. Also, for anyone who lives in the Basque area, can you describe what the level of tension is regarding Basque independence/ I mean, are their barfights over this, etc, or are most people pretty easy going about it usually.
and, despite all the figures, what do you think most native spaniards feel about the issue?

Again, thank you for your honest and straightforward replies. It is nice to live in a day and age where people from halfway around the world can learn from the struggles of other cultures and locations.

Imagica1975 wrote: Oh God. Here we go... stir the pot, why don'tcha. Get ready, everyone. We're now in for another wild ride.... Better get my moderator's cap on FAST and my finger on the CENSORSHIP button.

Imagica1975, PLEASE refer to allll the past threads on this very very same HEATED topic. You'll find LOTS of opinions there. Please, let's don't re-hash it all again here. Do we really need the stress all over again?? Ugh.

Saludos, MadridMan

Soooo right MM, don't reopen past wounds.
This is a VERY touching subject and a sad week for Madrid. We'll have enough with the media.

I repeat,

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

Please, Please, Please, Please, Please!

Not this topic. [Eek!] [Frown] [Eek!] [Frown] [Embarrassed]



I just know this time I'll blow an inhibitor gasket.

The thread was getting somewhat boring, wasn't it?

Well, as long as MM doesn't close the thread or tell us to stop, I'll give my opinion on the subject. It is just my opinion, and many spaniards think just the opposite.

1.I am unclear. Do you feel that 3/11 and the early blame of ETA by spain officials ended up causing the socialist party to win?

Not exactly. Things had been tensed by leftist parties for two years before the elections. They were using Spain's Government support to Iraq's War to erode its popularity and trying to win some votes.

ETA had been showing an unfrequent propaganda activity because they weren't able to kill due to recent police successess. There was a catalonian separatist and communist political party which was in coaligation with socialist party (the main oppositor party) in Catalonia and whose leader started negotiations with ETA to make them avoid catalonian territory in their terrorist activity. As you may understand, this was a target for the government to criticize (I really can't understand what socialist party is doing by allying itself with such political parties...).

So, communists and socialists were using support to Iraq's War to attack the government (which high success, since a majority of spaniards were against the war), with huge demonstrations in the streets; while the government was criticizing socialists for their alliance with catalonian separatists (which had agreed with ETA that they should kill only outside Catalonia).

Then the 3/11 bombing happened just 3 days before the elections. The Government inmediately blamed ETA. Almost everyone thought it was ETA, but that had political implications, since socialists were supporting catalonian separatists as I have explained above.

The opposition (mainly the socialists) started the most savage propaganda campaign I've seen in my whole life, accusing the Government of lying. When it became clear that it was not ETA but some kind of islamists, socialists saw their salvation. They continued their campaign, linking the bombing with Spain's support to Iraq's War.

And here we go: In three days, under the shock of the recent bombing and a savage media campaign, 3 million people changed their votes. The result was legitimate, but conditioned by the bombings.

Popular Party says they didn't lie, while socialists keep on saying the result wasn't conditioned by the bombings.

The thing is that both parties used the massacre to achieve their interests but, in my opinion, it was the socialist party which created the climate so the terrorists knew they could change the Government if they bombed just before the elections.

It is much more complex of course, but I don't want to bore you with details.

2.Also, I have read about terrorists coming into Spain from Morrocco. Is this Al-Quada or a different group of terrorists that have been around longer.

As long as we know, and we don't know much (thanks in part to socialist government which is making every effort to bury the investigation), it was a terrorist cell formed mainly by moroccians and other north africans. A small group of spaniards sold them the explosives, and it seems also that some policemen knew the plot and did nothing to stop it (some of them high rank officers linked to the previous socialist government). Morocco's intel agency might also known the plot, or it might even supported it. It was on Morocco's interests to have a different government in Spain.

3. Also, for anyone who lives in the Basque area, can you describe what the level of tension is regarding Basque independence/ I mean, are their barfights over this, etc, or are most people pretty easy going about it usually.
and, despite all the figures, what do you think most native spaniards feel about the issue?

I live in Madrid and therefore I don't have first-hand information, but the tension level is extremely high. You can't talk on the issue freely (specially if you don't support separatism). It is not a normal social situation. Non-nationalist parties have all their members with bodyguards because they fear ETA murderings (there have been a dozen of them killed). To put it simple: life is easy in the Basque Country... as long as you are nationalist.

Deibid could tell you more accurately how are things there (if he wants).

Fernando

Thank you for the reply, Fernando.

MadridMan, I understand that this is a very touchy issue and I won't approach it again on this board.

The reason I brought it up in the first place is because although there is a wealth of information available by using the search engine, I wanted more contemporary example that also hasn't been edited as much.

If you want to go ahead and close this thread, that is fine by me. I have learned all I need to know from both sides.

Again, sorry to dig up wounds. I have nothing but love and the utmost respect for Spain, and Spainish culture. I also think this message board is awesome. I meant no ill-intent. Just trying to get the personal touch on a very sensitive issue.

Thank you everyone,
-Jeremy