Wolf, what you are proposing is we negotiate with someone supported by 15% of basques and who has a gun over the table what to do with our country. Moreover, you say to settle the issue on a voting... how can you be sure the result wouldn't be different if ETA didn't exist?

Think you had to negotiate with Bin-Laden the destruction of the USA.

Fernando

If I'm not mistaken, this has been voted on more than once. And each time the voters have given the 'separatists' less than 15% of the popular vote - in the Basque regions. When you total the votes throughout Spain, the number obviously decreases.

Isn't this democracy in action or am I missing something here ... the votes are in and tallied more than once - no to seperation from Spain (you can read that Madrid for govt. base) and no to all ETA stands for ...

Puna,

I don't recall a vote in Basque Country that actually dealt with the issue. The Spanish Government has refused to accept them even having a referendum to see if the people really want independence. Until they allow the referendum, the whole issue of percentages isn't realistic. They're figures put out by the Spanish Government, and they'd be totally in line with point of view.

It would be so simple. Let the people hold their referendum. Let them voice their opinion. At least, if Madrid is right, they could end this question forever. It just isn't happening, is it?

Fernando - The government is going to have to deal with all factions in Basque Country, until they can have a legitimate representation. It's difficult when the Spanish government decertifies their political parties when they won't take a stand against their own people.

I certainly wouldn't deal with ETA as the "head" of any negotiations. If I recall, they weren't even part of the negotiations back in the 90s. They allowed the politicians to do their work.

Wolf, you really don't know how wrong you are about ETA and basque nationalists.

Why should "Madrid" (=>the Spanish Government) negotiate the Basque Country status with a minority of basques who use terrorism as the means to achieve their political goals?

I would want to see what would you say of decertifying political parties if you had a nazi or islamist party which supported terrorism Wolf.

Basques have a legitimate representation in the Basque Parlament, in the Basque Government and in the Spainish Parlament. There are basque nationalist (and separatist) parties in both parlaments, and they seek their political goals by pacific (though highly undemocratic I would say) means.

And one more thing: Our laws and constitution state very specific rules on who and how can organize a referendum.

Could Texas or Austin organize a referendum to declare their independent from the rest of the USA according to your laws and constitution?

Remember that non-nationalist basques are as basque as any other, and they want to be a spanish autonomy.

Fernando

Fernando,

I'm sorry. You're giving us the same old party line about Spanish rights, and not even addressing the rights of the Basques.

That's why there's this sorry mess that exists right now. Expect to see continued attacks, and dumb comments in newspapers on how they've "cut the head off the monster," only to see it come back again, with more bombings, and more violence.

Wolf

:o I stand corrected. Thank you, Wolf.

Was there perhaps an opinion poll(s) run that indicated the vast majority of the people living in the Basque areas were against separation from Spain? Could swear I remember reading statistics on this .....

Wolf, I'm sorry but you are not right. You talk as if the right of the basques were not granted, and that is just not true. I respect any political party who seeks independence but, at the same time, condemns the use of violence. Our political system grants those parties the right to be elected, and, for example, both ERC in Catalonia and PNV in the Basque Country are in the government. If you are basque nationalist you can walk all over downtown Bilbao shouting against spanish government and you will have no problem at all. Don't try to do the opposite.

I have three basque friends, old basque families, which have had to leave the Basque Country. Two of them were elected representatives in two town councils, from PSOE and PP. The third one's father was a businessman threatened by ETA.

As JasMadrid has said, basques have the same rights as any other spaniard. They have their individual and collective rights fully protected.

I have met three basques who had to flee from the Basque Country for different reasons. Half my family has been born in the Basque Country. The uncle of a friend of mine was shot in the head and was in coma for months, until he died. Imagine how was his family. Victims demands not only peace but also justice. You can't negotiate their future with the people who killed their relatives.

As for what the basques think, these are the data from the Euskobarómetro (a collection of ratios measured by one basque university):



As you see, only a third of basques would want independence.



This graphic measures the satisfaction of basques with their current political status (as an autonomy of the spanish state). As you can see 58% is either partially or completely satisfied with their political status. It is true that they majorly want a referendum to decide their political status.

You may see all the data at this page.

Now Wolf, what do you propose? To negotiate independence with the minority who want it because they have a gun aiming at you?

Answer my question please: Do you think the most reasonable way to behave to solve the problem of islamic terrorism is to negotiate with Bin-Laden?

Fernando

When you get right down to the facts negotiating with terrorists is an oxymoron - Terrorist / terrorism does not have the word "negotiate" in the vocabulary - If a terrorist were willing to negotiate and honor his/her word - he/she would cease to be a terrorist.

What I'm understanding is that the vast majority of the Basques (both on the Spanish and the French sides Pyrannes) do not want violence, destruction, threats or worse; they do not want a separate state/country (gracias for the pie charts ).

Whether the current government can succeed in "'negotiating" a peace" remains to be seen; it has not worked in the past but perhaps this time it will ....

This is ETA's will to negotiate: a bombing blast today in which 58 persons were injured.

There is nothing to be negotiated with terrorists, they are to be captured by police and judged by courts.

Fernando