No, I personally (like most europeans) see the death penalty as immoral, and I wouldn't want the EU to include any countries that think differently. This means that I think it's wrong for people to support death penalty, not for a government to act accordingly.

We're probably too far from the actual subject again, but I think joining a war to defend a country from a foreign threat is different from joining a war on the attacking side.

Error. The Government is trying to open up dialogue with a terrorist band and its doubtfully legal political party, not with separatists.

Fernando

The government is not trying to open a dialogue with PCTV, if that's what you are talking about.
The government has proposed that ONCE VIOLENCE HAS STOPPED, a dialogue should be held with the FORMER terrorists.
I don't know if this is right or wrong, I suspect that the government has some important information that we ignore.
I'm right now waiting for the next move, this is uncertain terrain, but I like this more than the former government's inmovilism.
Perhaps PSOE is opening the door to enter into the Basque Government after last polls.
I think it is a positive thing, when PSOE was in the Basque Government some years ago, the nationalist were in a more moderate position and were more firm against terrorists.

Pia,

Like I said, it's based on personal opinion. You stated it yourself. When people agree with you, they are right, when they don't agree, you've indicated they are wrong. I'm against capital punishment myself, but since it's the law of the land in some US states, and people support it, I'll have to accept it. But I'm not going to say that these people are wrong, I'll only say that I disagree with them.

Fernando,

I believe that ETA is a seperatist group. They want total independence, and that's seperation.

Deibid - I agree. At least opening up dialogue might lead to a resolve. Whether or not there will be positive results, nobody really knows. If it leads to a cessation of bombings by ETA, that in itself is a positive gain.

Wolf

Wolf, well then I think exactly like you, and of course it's a matter of personal opinion. Yes it's more politically correct to say that you "disagree with people" but disagreeing with someone is exactly the same as thinking the other person is "wrong", don't you think? The fact that there's no universal right or wrong makes all "rights" and "wrongs" completely subjective and I don't think you have to point out that views are subjective if it's already included in the definition. Haha, now back to the subject.

Wolf said:



Yes, and Al-Qaeda are Allah's followers and Bin-Laden a philantropic millionaire...

When we have to label a collective we use a distinct characteristic that allows us distinguish them from other collectives.

There are separatist groups in the Basque Country (all nationalist parties for example), but what distinguish ETA from any other group is that they form a terrorist band. Moreover, they want not only independence, but the annexion of Navarre and the french Depártment de les Pyrénées-Atlantiques, under the rule of a marxist-leninist regime.

But anyway, I don't think that talking with ETA is a bad idea per sé. However, you must clearly state the limits. With a terrorist band the unique negotiable thing is when and where they leave their terrorist activities, and perhaps how they can adhere to prison benefits.

It is more important what you negotiate than to negotiate.

Fernando

Pia,

There's a world of difference between disagreeing with someone and saying they are wrong. When you say you disagree with someone, you allow that their opinion carries weight, but when you say they are wrong, you're telling them their opinion is totally unacceptable. Not many people will accept being told that their beliefs do not have merit.

Fernando,

I agree on the question of "what is discussed."

As far as ETA establishing a government, that's just a belief stirred up by Madrid to insure that the ardor against Basque independence remains healthy.

The people of Basque Country would never commit to the type of government you've indicated ETA would want. ETA would not be the body that would decide. The Basques would do it through legitimate voting, and it would be a democracy.

I liken the comments about the ETA perception of government as a "bedtime story" intended to keep children in line, by offering an ominous threat if they don't.

Pia writes:

Not being cognitive/moral/situational relativist, I would strongly disagree with the verisimilitude of that statement, Pia. That is not a fact! That may be your cherished belief, but that does not make it a fact. The statement refutes itself!

Well, I disagree with you on this one then.

Wolf, I didn't notice your post earlier. I think we're talking about different things here, of course I'd tell a person I'm discussing with that I "disagree", but for diplomatic reasons. I don't think you make a difference in your mind between disagreeing with someone and thinking they are wrong. And please note, THINKING someone is wrong is not the same as saying they definitely ARE wrong. As I said, it's all about subjective views. And please let's stop this discussion or move it somewhere else, I feel really bad for disturbing the very interesting actual discussion.