I read this article from the BBC and I was shocked to find out the state of women's rights in Spain. I was always under the impression that Spain was a very progressive country and that, although violence against women is everywhere, the rate of domestic violence would not be extremely high. What also shocked me was the fact that women do not have free access to abortion. I guess there is still lots of work to do in Spain.

Please feel free to respond. It is through education and communication that change occurs.

What article?

it was an article talking about the gender violence law zapatero is drafting. i got it from news.bbc.co.uk

The link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3661117.stm

This topic could also go in the "About Spain" category.

xicanita4paz wrote: Here's my take on this issue. Spain, as well as most of the mediterranean countries, has LONG been a male-dominated country. Keep in mind that Spain only became "free" about 25 years ago after 40 years under a dictatorship. Even for a few years after Franco's death the country was still following the "old ways" but that started to change by 1980 when people realized their newfound freedom.

When you have generations and generations of male-dominated society you're going to have domestic violence. Because where there's male-dominated society you're going to have government (and church) supporting the male and constantly remind the female counterparts of their "place" in that society.

I imagine domestic violence was MUCH MUCH worse during the Franco years but those policemen arriving at the house's door, after getting phone calls of screaming, the male policemen would likely see the woman/wife was beaten but since it was "private, family business", and since the policemen understood these things then, they turned away, only giving a warning to "keep down the noise". Shameful, yes.

Nowadays, while there's likely less domestic violence now than then, we're hearing MUCH MUCH more about it in the media now so we might assume that this is an epidemic or something. Not so. It's just that NOW... FINALLY... these incidents are being reported and recorded and prosecuted as part of a new govermental and societal push for equality among the sexes. And when things get reported and people read in the newspapers about this or that happening and how terrible it is (IT IS!) then they feel more comfortable reporting incidents in the neighborhood or in their relationships because they now know there's a support system and that these things will NOT go unpunished. It's a whole shift in society, really, and one that requires time to take place.

Besides, Spain cannot afford to be looked down on as the "wife-beating capital of Europe" or the "domestic violence capital of Europe". That kind of reputation won't win Spain any summer olympic bids or improve business interests. Ahhhh yes... it always comes down to money, doesn't it? Sad. Shameful, really. But if you peel back the purpose and the reasoning BEHIND the "push" it's not likely to be to improve humanity - as much as we'd all like to believe because this is what those in power are telling us - but rather because of how Spain looks in the eyes of Europe and the world.

The fact that Spanish women don't have access to abortion shouldn't be too much of a surprise. We're talking about a country of 90% catholic population (although only about 15% are "practicing catholics") and where the church still has much power over government. This may change under Zapatero. I don't know. Let's all wait and see. Debating it is futile at this point. Women in the United States of America risk losing this right every year.

You say you're shocked that Spanish women don't have access to abortion. Then, are you also shocked that prostitution IS NOT illegal?

"Spain Is Different". And our individual values and perceptions of "the correct way" or even "the decent way" need not be the way of other peoples. It's kind of like an American going to a MacDonalds in Spain ( ) and thinking, "Blech!! This BigMac is terrible!!" while the Spaniard sitting next to him might be thinking, "Wow. This is one of the best hamburgers I've ever tasted!" This scenario doesn't mean the Spaniard has "bad taste" at all. So there's your difference in taste and perception. One does not necessarily need to nor have to be better than the other in order to be correct - it's just different.

But domestic violence (our topic) is a form of violence no matter how you slice it up and serve it with garnish. There's NO way to claim that because, in this regard, "Spain is different" it should be allowed or overlooked.

There's my mini-rant for the day.

Saludos, MadridMan

[disclaimer: The above statements are only my own impressions and my opinions. I will not force my opinions on you if yours are different from mine. I can live with that ]

It is a shame, it is a crap, it is not understandable and a great cowardy.

Unfortunately, I don't see the solution anywhere It is s social problem. Until the people who commit these horrible crimes and murderings doesn't understand how coward it is, it won't stop.

I will hang them by the ... from the highest available tree!

Fernando

Madridman,

Has there ever been a non-male-dominated country? The problem is an improper application of justice, which from some of the horror stories I heard while last there from the Philippina community, affects more than just battered women.

Our justice system here is far from perfect, but justice in Spain tends to be extremely arbitrary and prejudicial at best.

gazpacho wrote: Well yes. There was that all-female Grecian island, remember? But that was a few thousand years ago. But seriously folks, yes, all societies have been male-dominated, but less and less male-DOMINATED in the last century. Even the U.S.A. is male-dominated but not nearly what it was even 50 years ago. Some sex must be in the majority just as some race must be in the majority and some political party must be in the majority.

One might argue that there are a number of European countries which are more equal than others although, probably, male-dominance is still in the majority, no matter how slight or how large that majority.

gazpacho also wrote: The "great" thing is that you even heard about it in the first place. Probably 10 years ago all that would have been overlooked or supressed and would never have made it to the mainstream media.

Saludos, MadridMan

During the two weeks I was in Málaga in February, I read detailed stories of three women who were killed by their husbands. Another was doused with gasoline and set on fire in front of her young child. I brought one of these articles back Columbus to talk about with a Spanish friend, because I felt like it was a tragedy that the people just accepted. I believe that the attitude toward women and the acceptance of domestic/family violence is changing but that it will take time.

I don't think people accept domestic violence, but fighting this social problems need more than a one-track approach.

Yes, definitely, the law needs to have clear implications for abusers, and local governments need to make sure that they are carried out. I read about a woman who had gone to the police several times about her husband, he had even threatened to kill her. When she went to the police, they gave her a number to call if she thought she was in danger. Well, she didn't have time when her husband leaped out from under a stairwell when she was taking her child to school. She survived, but is in the hospital.

There also needs to be education for women on the subject. All the laws in the world won't help women who think this is acceptable behavior or something they must endure as Latinas. It's a tricky situation, but it affects many, many countries, not just the ones with "machismo," as is evident in domestic abuse statistics in the UK and let's not even talk about the middle east.