OK. Well, if there is to be a political Board, I will contribute (still think it is playing with fire...)

For anyone who has read my posts, recall that I did not really care who won the election per se. Elections embody a multitude of feelings that cannot always be assigned to particular feelings about a given candidate. What I was and always will be concerned with are the policies to be implemented. Before the election, I voiced my concerns about what I felt where misguided voices that went beyond the desires to win the election.
After the victory of the PSOE, what I have seen come out of Z's mouth has been astonishing,... diplomatically incendiary, counterproductive to any proclaimed efforts to fight terrorism, terribly threatening to the progress Spain has made under Aznar in become more than a European backwater (sorry folks, economically and politically sooo true) and frankly dangerous. To me it is incredible that Z is the new leader of Spain. This guy is no Felipe Gonzalez, folks.

Point by point...again, The fact that PSOE won means NOTHING to me. Let's stick to what he has done and how he has done it since winning the election.

Diplomatically incendiary. Though the ink is not even dry yet, he has insulted both Bush and Blair at every chance he has had. Iraq has not been a "disaster" unless you only watch CNN Headline News. Has he been to the country? Does he know what it was like beforehand? There is ALWAYS going to be resistance from the party that was booted out. Either he is unbelievably naive, or just plain...sorry to upset to say what I think. But geez, what a foolish, foolish way to enter elected office, regardless of your opinions and ESPECIALLY after a horrific bombing.

I just don't get it. The guy was a dufus prior to the election even to PSOE supporters (Face it, many confided in me that this guy was no Felipe Gonzalez, just a faceless bureaucrat). Instead of weaning troops out or meeting with World leaders to introduce them to the new Spanish platform, he chooses to insult the the efforts in Iraq and the dead of those who sacrificed for a cause in which they had firm beliefs??? Help me someone. Get this guy a public spokesman...

Counterproductive to Fighting terrorism. Let's assume you dislike Bush, You are angry over Iraq, you are sick of the US being a "bully," and that you really disliked Aznar...let's grant you all four for argument's sake...OK, a bomb goes off in your capital city. 201 innocents are killed. 11 million march against terrorism. So what is your first order of business as the president-elect??? Geez, one would think #1 would be to get informed over what was really going on (i.e. callete tu boca until you have assembled the facts of which you have NOT been privy to). One would also think you would immediately start conversations with those who have actually been fighting terrorism over the past four years or more. But...this career politician, a lawmaker since aged 25, takes neither a sensible nor brave approach to terrorism. Instead he actually immediately calls for the removal of Spain from a peaceful mission in Iraq, insulting the effort along the way, and THEN says he will be tough on terrorism. Who is this joker? Maybe he should back to the school of street smarts! Un-freakin' believable. As I posted earlier he just awarded Al-Q the easiest victory they could have ever, ever received. Again, NOT because the PSOE won--that could've happened for a million reasons, but because he has just sent signals all across the world that he agrees with Al-Q and will kow-tow to do exactly what they would have wanted!! If he wanted to fulfill campaign promises, he could have easily met with Allied leaders and figured out an exit strategy that would have protected his troops and kept up a tough front against Al-Q.

A second point with this, I am saddened that Z thinks that "No Al terrorismo" means "No To Terrorism If it Occurs in Spain." That is NOT what I thought 11 million people were saying last week. That is certainly not why I marched.

What will Spain do when they find out that Morrocco is the new Libya and Afghistan for Spain and that Morrocans, sick of generations of racism directed at them, has found a willing funding source, Al-Q, to fund the hell out of them. Do nothing?? WHo will help Spain root out Al-Q in Spain? France?? Sorry, LOL. Are you kidding me? And risk ticking off the 7-10 million Arabs in France? SOrry folks, the combo of Al-Q and Morroco has NOTHING to do with the US and Iraq. And after Z is through, good luck with getting help from the outside. Again, Felipe Gonzalez, this guy AIN'T. Hey whatever, hate Bush the man for all I care. But to openly taunt him and the sacrifices already made and then practically cut off ties before you know what allies you actually DO have??? Pure Bonehead.

Two steps backward. If Z has bided his time and then slowly brought home the troops and fought Al-Q at home he would be a hero. He would have gone the Nueva Via. Instead, not only does he make it is first task not to help the victims of the bombing, not to fight terrorism, but he then insults Bush and Blair and follows that up by meakly announcing that Spain will now fall in line with the rest of Europe!! Ayy, Dios Mio. From Spain forging a Nueva Via, to Spain with hat in hand waiting for handouts from France, Germany, Russia, Italy, and down the road from the UK. That is leadership? According to whose definition, pray tell? WHile Al-Q gets an A+, Señor Z gets no better than a D and most lkely worse.

Finally, his treads a road that is dangerous. As Kevin pointed out, when you insult your erstwhile allies, beg to those who never gave you much respect before, and then cross your fingers and HOPE that the Moros, the convenient butt of all jokes and insults here, don't continue to find greivances (with funding provided by Al-Q) well after Iraq ceases to be an issue, Spain will be navigating danerous thoroughfares. Since the guy has no industry or diplomatic experience, I think he forgot one of the cardinal rules of negotiation: Don't shut any doors without looking around to make sure that some remain open!! HAve fun with France...

I have nothing against the PSOE nor against folks who want to extricate themselves from Iraq. I also "want" all troops home ASAP. But...how it is done and when would be be appropriate are the decisions that separate true leaders from armchair bureaucrats. THese are the crossroads that separate the men from the boys. So far Z has shown himself thus far to be in need of repeating kindergarten...

An extra prayer tonight for Spain. "...Father forgive them, for they don’t know what they do."

EXCELLENT POST!

Yes I must agree, a very good post. Usually my posts get awfully wordy, but amazingly I find very little to add to this.

Your commentary on Z's actions since the election were very insightful. Whether he likes Bush and Blair or not, he gains nothing by insulting them and acting in the manner he is. He alienates them to what purpose? Someone needs to tell him the election is OVER.

As for support you can expect from the rest of Europe, well I hope your not holding your breath in expectation of that. The only consolation is that if any of the other European nations DO decide to help out.. well... just about any country that wants to can send their armies across France at will.

On a different note, I hear a lot about European nations thinking that a counterbalance to Americas power is needed, and they see Europe as that future counterbalance. Hardly seems like the plans of people who have any desire to be our allies in any manner for long. You cannot be allies and protagonists at the same time. Polls are saying this is a very widely supported idea in Europe, and that most Europeans support paying the costs to achieve military parity with the US. We shall see when the bills for such expansion ARE completed.. but rest assured, we will not be paying for a big chunk of it as we did with our funds for NATO. Our economic system made us able to not only compete with the soviets, but to bankrupt them. Do you honestly think a socialist EUROPE can do a better job than a socialist Russia? Do you REALLY want America and Europe sitting with nukes aimed at each other?

A couple of points.

** Z should take responsibility for the latest bombing in Iraq. Did you hear? An entire hotel razed to the ground. WHo died? About 30-40 everyday working Iraqis and their families. It utterly disgusts me. Z has emboldened Al-Q and their copycats. Expect the heat to be turned up.

** Post Cold War means Post Europe. The time has come for Washington to turn to the East where the US is still respected. Together, China and India are 2.3 billion people. or 40% of the World's population. They are both only beginning to hit their strides. They love US technology and US friendliness. They do not have their Euro contempt for us. Imagine 100% tariffs on Euro goods, and a pro-Asia strategy. Socialist Europe will soon collapse under its own weight as populations continue to age and social security continues to take large % of our folks'pay. Europe is yesterday's news. The future is in Asia.

Our four largest trading partners are Canada, Mexico, Japan and China. We slap the tariffs. Europe crumbles. What will happen to the US? A slight recession at worst. I am starting to care less and less.

No need nor cause for war or hostilities. JUst abandon them. Let them deal with huge Arab populations that they themselves treat with contempt. I personally have great respect for Arab culture. Most non-Arab Euros don't. Ask the Vietnamese. They still dislike the French but credibly enough have positive feelings toward the US--contrary to what many might think.

Let Europe deal with run away Russian Republics. Let them deal with Yugoslavia (I see Kosovo is flaring up again). Let them deal with the Cyprus issue).

In WW2, what economic integration we had in thr world was almost exclusively European. Those figures are dropping with each quarter.

Arrogance is not very comforting when your unemployment rate starts to soar above 15% which it would were to US really truly use economic muscle.

For countries that undestand what freedom means, the Czechs, the Poles, etc. Give them tariff free access.

All said, Spain will have to pay the price for their leadership. If they're happy with what transpires I'm all for it. But I think Z's a fool to begin distancing himself from the US and UK like he's doing. He may rue the day he didn't think before opening his mouth.

Especially about the time that his "new friends" in Europe start blaming him and his party for the increased activity by terrorists in their countries. But he may be too busy trying to figure out why al Qaeda is doing their damnedest to take over the Southern half of Spain. I guess he didn't listen to bin Laden's words about how Spain would pay for Andalucia.

Yhen there's the issues with Morocco, including two cities on what they call Moroccan territory, and some islands called the Canaries. They want them back, and al Qaeda will be more than happy to help them in their cause.

Wolf

Wow. I'm impressed. (and happy to see it!) There are SOME people (above) able to debate issues in a logical, mature, and intelligent manner! I was beginning to wonder. Congratulations, people. And thank you very much.

Saludos, MadridMan

You guys are taking me to school.

this one just came off the ap wire,

"In the hourlong interview Wednesday on Onda Cero radio, Zapatero said that ``fighting terrorism with bombs ... with Tomahawk missiles, isn't the way to defeat terrorism.

"Terrorism is combatted by the state of law. ... That's what I think Europe and the international community have to debate,'' he said.

OK make a law, no more bombing civilian rail lines no more flying planes into buildings, or blowing up cars infront of night clubs.

If every country does that tomorrow, we're in, no more terrorism.

Someone shoudl have outlawed all of this a long time ago

Truce between Al-Q and Z? That is what I am hearing...please, please tell me I am wrong or that the media is mistaken...

If so, what cost to sell thy soul?! Will Z drop intentions to "take a hardline on terrorism?" Will Z do everything he can in answer to cries of "No AL terrorismo?" Or will Z reach a private agreement that trades the "assurances" of no Al-Q attack on Spanish soil for Spain withdrawing from the fight vs. the terrorism of Al-Q and other such terrorists?

I am telling you now, if Z bows in and makes a deal with the devil, Spain will suffer the consequence long after he is gone.

The fact that the Z government is now refusing all intelligence cooperation vs. terrorism is odd for a man who knows next to nothing about terrorism but all too clear for a man who has already sold the soul of his countrymen to the evil of Al-Q.

How on earth can this guy look the parents of the young children who were massacred and tell them, "No, I did not hunt down your baby's killers. Yes, I refused information that would led to the murderers being brought to justice. No, I have yet to make forceful statements against this despicable act. Yes, in lieu of such comments, I decided instead to insult the US and UK efforts in Iraq. Yes, I made a deal with your child's killers. NO they will not be pursued nor punished...and Yes, Your child died in vain for I have thrown in the towel..."

Wow...as a parent I am beside myself. I pray that what we are now hearing is simply media churning and candidate-elect positioning. If not, I would have to pray for Z that he may get back some semblance of duty and honor and start acting as a leader of a proud and once defiant and independent Spain. My goodness gracious when will this nonsense end??!!

E3, My only regret is that I jumped the gun on Home of the Brave, for he brought up Neville Chamberlain and he was spot on!!

Z is a typical Euro/LatinAm political-lawyer who will draft incredibly grandiose proclamations while the people of Rwanda, Armenia, Eastern Europe, and Bosnia die in the hundreds of thousands before he gets voted out and action is taken.

Deals with the devil are not new phenomena. Aside from Chamberlain's classic naivete at Munch in 38, we had Roosevelt & Stalin at Yalta. Patton rolled his tanks to the edge of Prague and sat there for nearly a week so that the deal Roosevelt made with the Devil of Stalin, agreed upon in some flimsly drafted document, would be carried out. In the process, Czechoslovakia sat behind the Iron Curtain for nearly 45 years.

This guy Z is the Paper President. Even though he was PSOE, Felipe Gonzalez had pizzazz and charisma. Aznar produced results and put Spain on the geopolitical map for the first time in since the end of the 19th century. What about Z? Z wants Spain to crawl back into a shell made of paper promises and the bills of sale of untold thousands of souls who will die as a result of him handing Al-Q its easiest victory thus far.

This guy is pathetic...

All you PSOE supporters out there. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water!!! Put the loyalty to your country before party allegiances. Tell the PSOE to have this paper-pushing bureaucrat step aside so that the PSOE can replace him with a leader of men. Surely there is someone in PSOE with more tact and street smarts than this joker...At this pace, you are sealing your own party's fate, just like Carter's ineptitude essentially handed the Republicans 12 years straight. UNless you get Z in line, get ready for the PP to step in with a guy twice as intense as Aznar in four years time...

The Clinton justice department handled terrorism like an issue with the law as well.....

......didn't seem to work out too well. If he'd had taken Bin Laden from the Sudanese when they offered to hand him over, instead of saying we had no controlling legal authority over him although he was number 1 on the FREAKING MOST WANTED LIST, 3000+ Americans might still be alive.

The USS Cole
Two American Embassies
World Trade Center '93
Kohbar Towers

What do they have in common? They happened under Clinton with his "We'll try the terrorists as criminals" and only the ones that had a direct connection approach.

World Trade Center '01
???? Yep, that was it.

Under Bush....and we're STILL catching and fighting those SOB's. God Bless you Prez. Bush.