Pat Burger, please don't be close minded.

There are spanish troops in Afghanistan. We have lost there almost 50 soldiers.

It is a lack of respect to other countries who have troops in either Afghanistan and Iraq not to count of them. In both countries there are troops of more than 50 countries (Australia, Poland, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Japan,...).

Fernando

OK, sorry, point taken, I didn't know Spanish troops were in Afghanistan.
But, will they stay there under the Socialist government?

OK, sorry, point taken, I didn't know Spanish troops were in Afghanistan.
But, will they stay there under the Socialist government?

The president to be has said nothing about them.

I think they are in the same legal situation as the Iraq's troops, but socialists didn't said nothing about them, so I guess they will stay. Moreover, I don't think our president to be is willing to face additional international discredit by calling them back.

Fernando

Fernando,

If you polled Americans and asked them the following questions, what do you think the response would be?
Notice the difference in the questions...

1) Are you against war?
2) Are you for peace?
3) Is killing always the right way to solve problems?
4) Do you like sending your military to intervene overseas?

versus
5) Would you agree with your country going to war under certain cirsumstances?
6) IS it sometimes necessary to go to war to ensure that there be peace in the world?
7) IS the use of lethal force sometimes necessary to achieve a particular political or military objective?
8) Would you rather have your military sons and daughters home with you rather than dodging bullets overseas to help out a friend, ally, or simply a country in need?

Answers...
1) YES
2) YES
3) NO
4) NO
5) YES
6) YES
7) YES
8) YES

The folks in Kum-Ba-Ya Land only think of life in terms of 1-4, reflecting a life of eilitism and hypocrisy that is a downright insult to those who had NO CHOICE but to fight for their survival or beliefs.

YEs, the US govt has made many, many mistakes in its 200+ years, but these most wrenching of these were those in which we did not have the courage to stand up with enough passion for and commitment to our beliefs--with only a scant few because we were overzealous in our attempts.

Cheers to you

Completely agreed.

The problem is that people (perhaps also because US Government doesn't sell it well) only want to see the errors.

In Bosnia 20,000 moslems were killed by serbs in front of the eyes of hollish troops, who did nothing to protect them. It has to be US who put the serbs in their place. We were not able even to solve a conflict in our own continent since the WWII, always asking for aid to US. It is not fair then to criticize US at every possible chance.

It is also true, however, that US Government not always have the necessary tact to deal with certain countries. Sometimes is better to use politics (like in North Korea) than bullets and bombs, other times force is the unique solution. But it should always be the last solution.

Fernando

MadridMan, I want to start this off by saying that I have no intentions of bashing any country. People on your message board are posting opinions and opinions only. Sometimes opinions can be taken offensive and thought of as a personal attack and retaliate with offensives of thier own. Your message board is a place where people feel like they're being heard even if the politians aren't reading. Everyone has something to say and they're saying it. I apologize if me pointing out the terroristic attack and the change of vote status in Spain as a example. My remark was only for educational as an old intel person myself. You choose to delete some post that you think are bashing and choose to leave others up that I'm pretty sure others believe still are bashing.(to any country) Intensional blatant bashing, I agree, should be deleted. You have that authority to silence others. Its your site, but, with all due respect, how does leaving other bashing remarks up make it right?

P.S. Mine was one you removed

YOu are dead right about selling it well. ON this point, the right has been HORRIBLE both in terms of who they choose to manage things, their priority, and how they actually try to pull it off. HORRIBLE.

LOok at California politics. Gray Davis, perhaps the most pathetic governor in the history of the state. THat opinion was felt by both sides. Pathetic, but yet he wins two straight elections.

To be sure, lots of BUMBLING. Bill CLinton himself would be a better Republican leader than 50% of the Republicans!!

But is SOOOO important not to throw the baby out with the bath water!! Important to separate things: personnel, ideas, strategy, tactics, marketing, etc.

Need2knowbasis,
We're a Spain-centered forum here, clearly. The vast majority of people who come here, before the bombings and elections, were all people who love Spain or who were soon traveling there and seeking information. This is NOT a political message board and it won't become that. But these are political days in Spain and things do need to be discussed. But they need to be discussed MATURELY and without graphic remarks and slurs, name-calling and nastiness.

We had a number of newly registered members jumping in here looking to cause trouble and ruffle the feathers of all our Spanish members and Spain-lovers. They were trouble-makers in my eyes. We don't need them 'round these parts. I don't mind discussions in opposition to Spain's political decisions, not at all, but ONLY when they're carried out maturely and with respect to others, PARTICULARLY to our Spanish counterparts.

I hope that explains it well enough. This whole election topic has my head spinning with all the new activity on the message board. I'm quite upset with how many people are mouthing off. We're a mature, respectful and respectible group of adults here and we certainly don't need anyone shoving their flags or their opinions down our throats until we choke and TELLING us what is right and wrong. Have a little respect for the choice of the people of Spain. My god. The last few days of fanatical postings by some new members has made me feel a bit ashamed and I HATE feeling that way.

Sincerely, MadridMan

Thanks MM, once again you came through.