Kev, see my post on Al-Q and their A+. Report from CNN. Just brilliant in an evil way. Tactically, reminds me of Clinton's move to the center following his hiring of Dick Morris. Say what you will about the guy, but the move was of sheer political brilliance. These guys are no less saavy. They know the buttons of the West and are doing a good job at leveraging Europe's reluctance vs. the US. Z's commenbts so far are textbook.

I am sure Tom Clancy is taking notes for a future book, while shaking his head in disgust...

Clancy...

Not mad at him, I love his books, but mad at the movie producers about his last film, "The Sum of All Fears". That book was about Islamic Terrorists but what did they replace them with to be "politically correct"? White Neo-Nazis.

I respect the hell out of Dick Morris. He and Hillary didn't get along, but that's another story. I will be the first to admit that William Jefferson Clinton was as brilliant a politician as I have ever seen. I can't stand his damn wife. The simple fact that it happened on 3/11, 911 days after 9/11, should show people how these people are capable of conspiring. I totally agree this was a coordinated attack that was meant to disrupt the coalition's efforts at routing out terrorism and it appears they had a small victory. I wish people would realize that you cannot negotiate with terrorists. I keep repeating this but Bill Clinton pulled us out of Somalia after 18 Rangers and Delta were killed when we were there to bring stability to the region and feed the Somalians. War is war. People die. I am not marginalizing the soldiers lives, as I was one, but that is a chance we take and one we take freely as we are all, well, in the States, volunteers. I, and no other soldier I knew, took our oath lightly. The pulling out of Somalia showed UBL that we didn't have the stomach to see GI's come home in bodybags. In Vietnam we were losing on average of 500 a week. To see people today compare Iraq with Vietnam makes my blood boil. With what we have accomplished, as bad as it sounds, the achievements we have made outweight the costs. If they didn't, we wouldn't be there. I pray to GOD that we never have to factor the costs of lives into the protection of our, and our allies, freedom, as freedom isn't free and the price is almost always blood.

What in the bloody hell did the Spanish soldiers do? I would have mass punished my entire squad if they were to "taunt" the departing Spanish soldiers.

Just ignore him Kevin.

The problem is very easy:

Socialists (Zapatero - PSOE) sold people we were supporting a conquering war, thus, creating a fear we could be attacked in reprisal. He obviously didn't believed he was going to win now, but expected to rise and win in four years. In four years our troops would have come back and he wouldn't have to comply with his promise.

But... the bombings were misserably used by some sectors and mass media. They convinced people that the Government was hiding information to win the polls, and also that a cause-effect relation existed in the attacks (cause being support to war, effect the bombings). They even managed to gather demonstrations in front of PP sites (one was burnt in La Coruña). This discontent made people massively vote (along with a sense that the answer to the attacks should be to vote).

In my opinion the result couldn't be worst. We have ended make it appear we changed the Government in response to the bombings, which couldn't be better for terrorists.

The problem is that our left parties have used the most sensitive matters in order to achieve victory, which is a great big error. We are going to pay a high toll for this, I'm sure.

This happens when you have an inmature democracy in which not every party seeks national interest, but party's own interests.

Fernando

Unfortunately Fernando,

It can just as easily happen in older, more established democracies. I am just proud that yours was one of the first, if not the first country, to offer us aid when we needed it.

Madridman,

Are you sure that 80% of the Spanish population opposed our war in Iraq, or is that just what the press is saying? I must assume that the Spanish/European press, is as unreliable as our own nowadays.

Keeper,

My reference to the burka was intended to draw
Afghanistan into the mix. Both were oppressive governments, and both denied people their rights. One under the veil of the burka and total mind control like the Taliban, the other under the heel of a ruthless dictator who was systematically destroying any opposition through genocide. In neither case was the "ruling party" the actual majority of the people. But, in the bowels of Iraq stands the majority of the population. Shiites. Inside their beliefs stands the burka, and if they have their way, every woman in Iraq will be in one as soon as the coalition forces leave. You can count on their dogs of war being turned loose on the rest of the Iraqi population as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

As for my questions, they were valid. She has not answered them, and will not answer them. I wouldn't either, because doing so would prove I either support oppression or would fight against it. In her case, she can accept its existence because they haven't come for her. Yet! But who will be there for her when it's her turn? There would be nobody left.

Wolf

gazpacho asked: I think it was a USATODAY.com article that said the number was more like a 90% Spanish opposition to their government's participation in Iraq.

Oh. And by the way, everyone. I've begun deleting the Spain-bashing postings by these new drifters. I'm keeping a close eye on them all. Don't worry. SPAIN BASHERS ARE NOT WELCOME HERE!

Saludos, MadridMan

From a previous post:
>>>We don't have any reasons to be USA's allies.
Not that it's a bad thing, anyway.<<<

At this moment, US troops are crawling through the desert and mountains of Afghanistan, in awful conditions, still hunting members of the terrorist group that just killed hundreds of Spanish people in Madrid. I don't think there are any Spanish troops with them; if there are they won't be there long.
There are, however, British troops in Afghanistan. Judging from the posts on the BBC forums, many or most British are just itching to bring their troops home too. So, when the expected Al Qaeda attack hits London, I would not be surprised by immediate British elections and a similar national capitulation as just happened in Spain. And then the US troops will find themselves all alone fighting Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
Something about this picture makes me extremely angry as I read posts like that above. If its the United States against the world, I throw my lot in with the United States.

Gazpacho: I'm ashamed of some of the decisions my countrymen have taken. But I can only accept them and make every possible effort to make it not happen again.

As for the 80% of the population not wanting the war, I think it is true. People don't like wars. Civil wars are more horrible even and (thanks to the left which uses every possible oportunity to remind us) spaniards won't support any war unless our territory is menaced.

That, combined with the dubious reasons for making war, a wrong explanation to the people from our Government, and the use the left did of it to erode the Government, made people to be massively against this war.

In the past (First Iraq's War, Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia) people did support war.

Fernando