Well now Filbert,

There you go. I'll bet you're marching in the streets to overthrow the incumbent party because the price of gas is so high. That's the mentality of some over here. And since gas cost more than twice the cost of ours, your country must be twice as bad as ours. I bet Bush and his oil cronies control the price of oil in the U.K. too.
Just being sarcastic, I bet the U.K. is a great place to live.

Gazpacho et al; there's one giant flaw with your anology between the US and Europe,and the price of gas. First of all Europe doesn't produce or have the petrolium reserves or production that we in the US have. We are one of the world's top producers and users of oil and gas. Secondly because of our powerful oil and gas politics our history since the 20th century has practically evolved from the oil and gas industry.

We in the US, over the years have been manipulated and transformed into a gas dependent society. Oil as gold, as king maker, as world industrial power, as world class consumers, dependent on oil and gas. Did Europe ever have a powerful auto industry like we had?(now practically bankrupt!).Did Europe ever have a powerful oil and gas industry? Did Europe like we in the US ever develop the highway and freeway systems like the US?
Did Europe ever develop whole cities and communities around the automobile like our surburban commuter towns built around and along the freeways and highways, built with our tax $$, and with a total dependence on the Automobile and cheap gas?
The answer is no! But our whole culture revolves around the car and gas except in certain metropolitan areas where they had the foresight to build "rapid transit" commuter systems.
In Europe due to their insistence on "industrial centers in metropolitan areas with cheap mass transit systems people don't need to use their cars as much.
We in the US unfortunately have been sold a bill of goods that commuting 50 to 100 miles a day to work, depending on cheap gas, living in some track home suburban area (with gated, guarded, patrolled, green grass, by and large white only MacMansions), paying outrageous state mandated auto insurance, driving monster SUV gas hogs,
is a wonderful way of life!
So now the chickens come home to roost, and shock of all shocks the same white,christian, conservative republicans, who we elected to protect our sacred "American way of life" are ripping us off and telling us to "stick it where the sun don't shine"
So if people like Gazpacho want to try and put the old right wing apologist spin on this situation, well keep on spinning and we'll all act civil and swallow hard!
Blame it on the illegal Mexicans!

Fulano: It would probably surprise you to know that the interstate highway system was patterned after the German Autobahns. To your credit it was a right wing Republican President that put the interstates in motion in 1956. I have to agree with you that Europe is light years ahead of the US on mass transit. I just came home from two weeks in London and Barcelona. Good subway and bus system in both cities.

Now I have one question for you, just what does any of this have to do with illegal immigration?

DD writes: The latter is at least in part due to the U.S. Marshall Plan that helped rebuild Western Europe's infrastructure in the Post-WWII years. Spain was not included!

As for the former: The National Defense Highway Act of 1948 (enacted by a predominantly Democratic legislature) was the principal impetus for construction of the Interstate Highway System.

It would be my guess that many illegals worked on construction of Interstate Highways, especially in the southwest U.S.

My point is that we in the US cannot feel less angry due to the fact that in Europe gas is 6, 7, or 10 bucks a gallon. Our life style and culture was developed around gasoline and auto's. In my own home town of Los Angeles I witnessed the destruction of one of the world's great and efficient mass transit systems to be replaced by freeways, car culture, surburbia nirvana, etc;

Since this was the "masterplan" for us in the US, then we should hold responsible those who are now slowly roasting us over the fire with high gas prices, ridiculous "quotas" on fuel efficient japanese autos, our auto giants continuing to produce gas hogs, oil company's selling our resources to foreign country's like China for massive, obscene, world record profits,"Exxon/Mobil CEO's getting "retirement" packages like $400,000,000.
Today on the news I see our President in Calif. visiting and touting energy efficient hydrogen powered test vehicles and other research facility's "developing" energy efficient items.
It made me want to puke!
If we had any real leadership in the US they would supponea these Oil Co. Ceo's and haul their ass's before Congress and demand and accounting. And if changes weren't made immediately, would start proceedings to "nationalize" the oil industry for the national good!

I made the comment about blaming it on the "Illegal Mexicans" in an indignant but facetious manner because I can see it coming now in the next elections.
The US voting public will again be bs'd and convinced that all our problems are due to Illegal Immigration and this will become the new "one issue debate fodder" to keep us voters confused and divided.
The real important issues like the Oil Co ripoffs, War in Iraq, the selling out of the US, etc; will become smaller in importance as we all yell and scream and call each other racial epithets and traitors.
Mexicans as "scapegoats" and one issue candidates will have a field day spinning the truth.

Also DD, FYI President Eisenhower was absolutely not a "right wing Republican President". Ike today would probably be castigated as a Liberal! It was Ike that warned in his last Presidential speech "The greatest threat to the American people is the Military/Industrial Complex" and man was he ever right!
Pres Eisenhower was also the President that appointed former Calif Gov. Earl Warren as "Chief Justice of the Supreme Court" also a Republican but who was hated by the right wing politico's as a "left wing Liberal" and who these nuts tried to have impeached for years! Truly great men in US history and I wish we had them around today instead of the greedy sin huevos lackeys we are stuck with now.

the US needs inmmigrants for work not done by Americans, and they let them in easily...now those immigrants like it and are getting their dogs and all into the US;and americans are finding it hard to take them in anymore.

sounds familiar? yes its the same in Europe on a smaller scale.
I think the idea of Fulano is a good one if starts now for new entries; as for the old established illegals its too late they have been in the US for too many years;,done business pay their taxes;raise a family of Americans born kids...now its time to clean the slate and start anew with better policies.
any sending back deal is discriminatory and inhumane;they are not really to blame they just wanted a better life;dont we all?

one technicality on eddie
Spain was not included in the Marshall Plan for Europe;correct

but americans dealt with Franco rights for air and sea bases in Spain in exchange for aid;aid aid $$$$$ which amount to the same but no shown as such due to Franco's political views which the americans had just fought over !!!!!

My dear friend, fulano, writes:
"Truly great men in US history and I wish we had them around today instead of the greedy sin huevos lackeys we are stuck with now."

Where have all the good men and women gone? Most, if not all, are out of politics. And the women, are no better, sadly.

Here's one, Jane Jacobs, who wrote !


Pedmar, the oil crisis is having little effect in France, right? After all, most of your cars have been fried, non?