Pia and Barry,

It doesn't matter what the social situation is of the Muslims in your country. Or whether they're underpriviledged, undereducated, rich, poor, disaffected, radical, non-radical, etc. What matters is the measures you have to take to stop and prevent Muslim aggression. And that's what is really behind most of the posters concerning this topic.

What really irritates us is that Europe should really know by now that you can't just appease aggression and get off scott-free. If reality doesn't teach you different how about some not-so-long ago history?

I'm not happy that France is having their current problems. The vindication of seeing reality in action, hardly gives me any comfort.
It's like seeing someone abusing substances and not able to provide for himself or his family anymore. You get so frustrated waiting for him to realize that he can't go on doing the things that he does. The sad truth of it is, about half of this country agrees with the way Europe is handling terrorism.

Who knows? Maybe the next time we invite the world to help solve a problem they won't be in such a hurry to jump on us because we have a conservative president. Or they won't be making their own backroom deals with the U.N. to undermine our efforts. We will surely be able to solve problems quicker and more economically when this happens.

I don't think any of us have said "all Muslims are bad." What we've tried to state is that the radical movement within their religion is the movement that always wins. They never lose because they have absolutely no concern over what they do to others to get their way, and they are willing to die for what they believe.

One glance at the world of fundamentalist Muslim doctrine in countries tells you they eventually take control of governments by force if necessary, and then become an agent for spreading this belief throughout the world.

You don't believe it? You might listen to the new Iranian President. He sent you a message as to what the fundamentalists of Islam think of you and us. He may have been shooting his mouth off, but remember this... nobody in the Muslim world did more than say; "You shouldn't say that! Its not nice!" They have no intention of tangling with the hardliners.

Even countries we consider moderate in the Muslim world face serious problems. Jordan and Saudi Arabia walk a narrow line of peace with the fundamentalists. They don't dare crack down on them except for outward actions, because they know it will cause more problems, and the fundamentalists have absolutely no rules by which they play. These countries even fear their own people, because even though they don't support the fundamentalists directly, if the governments of these nations should side with the US or Europe, without exhausting as much energy as possible to keep the neutral Muslims neutral, they know they will have civil war themselves.

It was mentioned about the terrorism in Ireland. That was a good example of what people can do for a sustained period of time, even though they aren't zealots like fundamentalist Muslims. I didn't see a rash of suicide bombings happening in Belfast so I can only conclude that the religious resolve there was far less than that of the fundamentalists.

I also didn't see Mosques and schools created for the sole purpose of creating terrorists either, like I see happening in the Muslim world. In fact, the hardliners boast that they have over 1,000 schools that have devoted themselves solely to creating the new warriors of Jihad! Of course that was quickly swept under the rug after it was stated, following 9-11.

I say, believe what you want, but this is just the beginning of hell for Europe. The rank and file bomber and demonstrator in France may be thinking somewhat of this all from an economical standpoint, but rest assured, behind the scenes is a serious minded group of fundamentalists who are calling it the beginning of Jihad, and there isn't anything you can do unless you oppose it with force.

One big question. When rioters are shooting at police and fire personnel, and throwing molotov cocktails at them made in a terrorist factory, is that civil disobedience? It sounds like attempted murder to me, not a cozy little walk in the park with signs saying; "Hell no, we won't go!" Like we saw here in the States back in the 60s.

Wolf

Out of all the countries in the world, France, it's politicians and intellectuals class, lectures and bad mouths the America, it's society, it's government and the way is behaves in the world. This is not because of the Iraq war. This kind of bad mouth attitude from France towards America has been going on since the end of WWII.

Now it turns out, the French have problems too. I remember how some left wing French liberals would lectures the US how they do not discriminate against blacks. It only turns out they do discriminate only it is not blacks.

So what we have now is this. There is this country name France who constantly criticisms the US for over half a century. Now France made the mistake of letting the world see their skeletons in their closet and they are not so prefect. Some in France should have shut their mouths about its complaints about the US and work to fix their own problems.

Do not think I feel this way towards the French people. I love going to France and meeting them. I find generally them warm and friendly. I strongly dislike the French government, its relations with the US which they have made it worst. A country where the politicians feel they have to bad mouth my country to win elections. Germany does it too and look what happen in the last election.

So what you are seeing in America is not glee, but a concern about France, because we feel the French government and the politicians are going the situation worst.

Bill

Pia,

I take umbrage with your comment about me having "malicious delight" in my posts.

On the contrary, I'm concerned for family and friends who live in Europe. They're the ones who are in harms way because of this cavalier attitude we're seeing from a lot of Europeans surrounding the issue.

So, please, do not try to assess my reasonings for my beliefs by shrugging me off as if I was "anti-European" because you're way off base.

Wolf

Pia

I'm really surprised that some people seem to get furious whenever they find you do not think the way they do.

Sit down, relax, have a Bud. (That'll improve your economy, too )

Bill :o

Wolf, I was not referring to you and I apologize if it sounded like I was.

Bill, you know I've been much less furious because of your opinions than the other way around (and sticking much more to criticizing your opinions than you as a person than the other way around). I just draw a line somewhere before someone comes and tells me or someone else that (at least some of) their friends are definitely pro Osama just because they are Muslims.
And as for the Bud, last time I checked it was American and thus it would improve YOUR economy.

Pia

And from you

I did not know you spoke for Barry and I did not say "definitely". But it is possible because he is a hero in some in some Muslims circles.

Also do not forget that fact he is not dead yet makes him a hero because of the Great Satin has not killed him and made sure he get his 50 *****es in HELL!

Bill

Right now the question is not whether the rioters in France are just a bunch of youngsters seeking jobs and opportunities,as some believe, nor, whether they are rioting for their religious beliefs. The question at the end of the day is how long will it take groups like Al Qaeda's and such organizations to take advantage of this situation and turn it into a European-wide jihad?

The very same fear that this unrest may be more than a localized situation in France, as there have been some copy-cat events in Belgium and Germany, countries which have a more inclusive policy towards their immigrant population, has encouraged the European Central Bank to devalue the Euro, as reported by Bloomberg.com web page
Other news articles have stated that the ECB might have been a tad too hasty.

Just a quick fact check. An earlier post quoted tha annual "murder" rate for Washington D.C. as 15,000. The total of homicides for last year in D.C. was 198. The highest in the last 20 years was 482. So far this year, 198. It is obviously too many, but a far cry from 15,000. There is enough blame to go around without such hyperbole.

I have a ticket to Paris on December 8th.

From today's AP

Bombing Subways? The potential to kill incident people has just increased. Reading this brought back memories of Madrid and London bombings. Lets hope the French justice system does the right thing, hunt down and lockup these terrorist for life!

And this from
New York Time Cartoon Section

Bill