It's just interesting and curious that the catalan government has realized, few days ago, a document to improve our educational system and is titled:
"The Finnish educational system seen from Finland. Brief notes about the Finnish and Catalan educational system". This document tries to explain the success clues in Finland, and how to implement that in Catalonia.



Well, I'm starting to believe that statistics works. Finland is in fashion, at least in Catalonia .

Pia,

I think that productive members of society have a tendency to be liquidated under a communist regime, don't you?

But that's not what I'm posting for. I just want to say that because you seem to me an admirable person for asking us about life in the U.S. and what makes us different than the rest of the world. I consider this very commendable and want to thank you for this. Hopefully you don't find our answers absurd.

I'm quite a reader, and would like to know more about Finland. Do you know of any good books about your history and culture?

Regarding the education issue:

Aidance, I applaud you for your comments!

As a fellow educator, I take offense to Gazpacho's comments earlier regarding "lesser quality of education in urban areas". I am a teacher who teaches in an urban area of San Diego, and I feel my practice is no where near a "lesser quality". I attend extra trainings, moonlight as a tutor to students in the neighborhood, pay out of pocket for Saturday seminars to better my practice all in the service of improving my students chances at a better life. (And this is kindergarten!). So don't tell me that my teaching is of "lesser quality" because of the zip code I happen to work in.
My students learn because of me, not in spite of me!!!!

To All the American Teachers on this board: You all seem to be on the defensive. Maybe you should be, because TAXPAYERS such as myself are tired of seeing your lack luster results, and your blaming everyone but yourself. Yours is the only occupation in America that stands around with poor results and says it is the fault of the "parents" the "cheap taxpayers" "bad administration" "Bad neighborhoods." I don't have that luxury in my business. If my company has a bad year, there is nobody to blame but the old Desert Dweller. If one of my employees wires an air conditioner wrong and a house burns to the ground, guess who will be the one to pay for the damages.

Let me give you a real good suggestion, get off your highhorse, quit trying to teach those little darlings anything. Motivate them to want to learn. Us cheap, tight fisted taxpayers are not paying you to teach, we are paying you to motivate them to learn.

Chica, Pia,

Chica - Because of your unique perspective of life in Spain, and I say that as a complement, can you give us some real insights as to how it really is for immigrants?

Although I have heard there are opportunities, discrimination is practiced far and wide within the manufacturing and business areas, and the opportunities that really exist seem to be more along the lines of owning your own business.

I've also been told that the discrimination is even greater when it comes to women who are immigrants.

Pia - Information I have, about Finland, indicates that immigrants have a real problem trying to assimilate themselves into Finnish society, and are essentially left out of the loop in the area of work, not all that unlike Spain.

Do the two of you feel that these statements made by others are true, or is there a strong lack of equal opportunity employment in both countries, and essentially across Europe?

Thanks in advance!

Wolf

Of course there is relative lack of opportunity, everywhere in the world and in Finland as well. The first big loads of refugees (mostly from Somalia) came here just in time for the financial crisis we had in the early 90's and they were of course easy to blame for all the cuts etc. Especially old people are often narrow minded and think "they fought for our independence for some foreigners to come here and live on our money".

Luckily my generation already thinks very differently and sees the importance of working together for assimilation, and the employment situation for foreigners is improving all the time. At least I hope and believe the future is much brighter.

edit: gazpacho, I'm sorry but I don't know any good literature in English, but I'll check it out and get back to you.

Please excuse me Laduque,

I didn't realize the quality of education in the inner cities was so top notch. I live here around Detroit, and that's not the picture painted here.

As Dessert Dweller says "get off your high horse." Why not try and teach children the three R's and leave the social indoctrination crap to the parents? It just might work. I don't care if they know about condoms or drugs at five years old. I want them to read and write when they are 18 years old, and then, quite possibly, maybe all our jobs won't go to India, Mexico or China....Comprendo?

I blame the education system, more than anything else, in selling out the great U.S.A.

Who said anything about condoms and drugs? The learning environment in my classroom is all about reading, writing, and math, we have little to no time to formally expose these kids to the arts, music or science, because I am making up for the years before they came to kindergarten. Some of my students have never even owned a book, much less know what to do with one!
As far as getting defensive, I won't go on any further (It is difficult not to with posts like yours). There is nothing I will be able to say to change your opinion.

So...Unless you've walked a mile in my shoes...

Please excuse me gazpacho and DD.
Quote: Us cheap, tight fisted taxpayers are not paying you to teach, we are paying you to motivate them to learn.
That would be "We cheap, tight-fisted taxpayers...."
All teachers know that our first job is to motivate kids to learn.
We don't teach 5 year old children about drugs and condoms. And, every parent has the opportunity to opt out of having their child participate in any drug/health/sexuality education. Notices go home and parents can come to school to see the curriculum in advance. I usually opt my own kids out.
What sort of social indoctrination shall we leave to the so-called parents? Here are some examples: That's a lovely outfit you're wearing that shows 2 inches of cleaveage and another inch of butt crack. I, as your teacher, must be responsible for how you leave your house. Of course, if I'm male, and send you to the office for dress code violations, your mom will be reporting me for sexual harrassment (after all, it's your mom's outfit you borrowed...she saw nothing wrong with it). Sorry that your mother stole your $200 senior package money (that you earned flipping burgers) so that she could buy drugs. Oh, is working 30 hours per week so that you and your little sister can eat getting in the way of your studying? Sorry that you got no sleep last night, you little kindergartener, since you were out all night with your parents collecting cans and bottles. Sorry you can't concentrate on your studies because your dad just shipped out to Iraq and your alchoholic mom locked you and your mentally/physically handicapped sister out of the house. Sorry your mom won't bring you to school because your little brother is sick, and mom needs you to babysit while she goes to work--if she misses another day, mom will be fired. Sorry you haven't figured out that you'd be better off doing your homework than playing those video games that your mom bought you so that you won't feel deprived. You mean mom doesn't monitor that?? Gee, that must be your teacher's fault. Oh, actually, you don't live with mom, you live with grandma who did such a bang up job raising your mom that mom's still addicted to crack, and is really busy trying to find the sperm donor of her latest kid, who's in the neo-natal preemie ward.... These are all real-life examples.
But these bad, lazy teachers need to do a better job. The school system is failing. Gee, Laduque, maybe you should be spending time finding new homes for your students, or raising money for their guardians, instead of training yourself, preparing lessons, grading papers, staying after school to tutor for free.....? Sure glad the schools were so much better when DD and gazpacho went to school. That must be why their posts are so full of insightful wisdom and no grammar/spelling errors.
Or maybe not--I quess we should blame our teachers for all of our failings. It's no longer cool to blame your mother.

Spelling errors? Grammatical errors?

They're obviously talking about you DD. Were we be learnin' American like dat?

But Aidance and Laduque,

I'm sure you're both conscientious teachers and my hats off to you. I do consider it one of the most challenging of jobs. But the drug and condom thing I stick to. I've heard of it being taught to very young children. I don't think it has any reason being taught in school at all. There's too much more they should be learning.

I have an Uncle and Aunt who visited me this summer. They are both educators. When I explained my opinion about teaching children the essentials and leaving out the social engineering they were both adamantly against this idea. Even when I explained that, if I was a business owner, I would have no problems in either paying for cheaper labor south of the border, or well-educated labor from India or China. I'm under the impression that they have lost some perspective.

Hey, I just reread your post. The years before Kindegarten? They're suppose to know how to read, write and math before kindergarten? Then why go to school? I didn't have to know these things before I as in kindergarten, although I did know how to read just a little, thanks to my Mom. Wow! I've heard of this from a workmate and couldn't believe it. I got it, the parents should teach their children to read and write before kindergarten so the teachers can do........what?