Thank you Wolf, I'm really happy that at least you understood that my point was not spreading the evangelium of my perfect home country. And I completely agree with you on everything you said about the IQ testing.

Wolf, you present the current, sane viewpoint regarding testing. This is precisely why the state of California no longer gives IQ tests.

Let us all put into perspective the issue of education. There is not doubt that a strong education is a good tool to get going in life. Who would hire a second grade drop out to go into the electrical engineering department? A sixth grade drop out for the mechanical engineering department? Or better still, a man who dropped out of the first semester of computer programing, to head up the computer department. Do the names Edison, Ford, and Gates mean anything to any of you.

Education is a tool, and like any tool, it is what the owner of the tool does with it that makes the difference.

Walk down skid row of any city in the world and it will not take long to find a Phd. passed out with a jug of wine under his arm.

Great topic Pia! Your questions about why we in the US are so behind other industrial countries in the area of education, medical care, child care, and the justice system really strikes at the heart of what ails our country, I'm sure you can tell by the responses from our conservatives. And of course we in the US always have to have a villian to blame for our woes, AT one time it was the Native AMericans(savages and pagans halting progress!), then the former slaves African Americans, Immigrants from various nations, now it is the new latin and asian immigrants,(especially the Mexicans!) We never ever face the awful truth that Monopoly Capitalism (Not free enterprise! it's not the same!) needs a cheap source of labor with no power and uneducated to provide the grist for the mill! Mark Twain said many years ago that he could visit any country on earth and after visiting the prisons identify who were the exploited people and who were the ruling classes. It's still true today, and by the way besides the oil industry, one of the fastest growing business in the US is the "Prison building, law enforcement, security industry" a very sad commentary but true!

Ah Fulano,

What am I going to do with you? What woes are you talking about? Only liberals like you and Silvita are p****** and moaning about how bad, the U.S. is. I think our country is great and strong and getting better every day. And I'm so glad I'm living in the U.S.A.

Yeah, there are problems here,especially education, but I don't hear conservatives over here blaming immigrants. The only people I hear blaming any woes on cheap labor are our trade unions, which are hardly conservative. I, as a conservative, am more than glad to see people from other countries wanting to improve their lives here and I'm proud to share this country's wealth with them if they're willing to work here. More people, new markets, more Capitalism, life is good.

The people you see in our prisons are the same kind that were in the liberal Utopia of New Orleans, expecting everything from everybody and not caring about themselves enough to do the little it takes to get ahead in our society. Why would conservatives want more people in prison, that's absurd. Get them out and get them working. If they all can't be CEO's too bad. Guess what? I'm not either. They have to do menial labor, so what, so did I when I was younger, and sometimes I still do now. Geez, Louis, Fulano. You try my patience. (But not really)

I've said it before and will say it again,Fulano for President 2008. The man with the plan, Fulano is the man.

With a little polish we could make him almost as good as Ignacio was. He is still a little rough around the edges, but getting there.

Pia your point was that everything was cultural - no racial differences, and you asked me to show you some research that backed what I was saying - and I did that! :p And quite easily I might add, because there is mountains of research to back up what I am saying, but not much to back up what you are saying. You and the aidance man are living in a fantasy world, a theoretical world, and I believe that unrealistic thinking such as yours does no one any good. At any rate, on this topic I think you are a bit overmatched by me, so I am going to cut you a break and drop it after this post.

Your original point was that you in Finland have a liberal system that works well for you. However, I think I and others have shown you a number of reasons why your system may be effective for Finland (at the present time) but is not likely to work in a country such as America. One of my key points was that your population is too small to generalize your results to a nation of nearly 300 million. And you have done nothing to disprove this point. You then attempted to make an argument that America is to blame for its own racial problems because of the way Americans are racially determinant, and I guess you were trying to make the point that this isn't a problem in Finland - though your point on that really wasn't very clear. However, since your black population is less than 1% I don't think you can do any boasting on your country's ability to assimilate other racial groups. And you gave an example of some Iranian friends that "act Sweedish" - as your example of how well Sweden or Finland is able to assimilate different racial groups. Haha...you might want to see if you can edit/delete that post
:p

In summary, if you are happy living in your white Anglo world in Finland, so be it. But don't try to boast to others how your country has it all figured out - its laughable at best!

Pff. Once more, I would appreciate it if you read my posts. My intention was, for the 48th time, not showing how everything is perfect here and that the US should do things in the same way as we do: but showing that it's going OK for us EVEN THOUGH we have these policies and creating a discussion on whether or not these policies are necessarily bad and if it's due to special conditions that people here on this board think it works OK for us but might not work in their country. Not "boasting to others how my country has it all figured out". Dicussion. Comprendes?

And I would also like to see where I have explicitly "tried to make the point that Americans are to blame for their racial problems because they're racially determinant" and "boast with my country's ability to assimilate racial groups". I just reacted to the fact that I think your comments on race were pretty disturbing and luckily, I don't see "Alando" as equal to "America" and there seem to be many people (Wolf, aidance for example) here who agree with me on that your research on blacks having a lower IQ than whites aren't reliable: you should read for example Wolf's post to see why. So I still don't think you have proved me wrong and I still don't think different races are born with certain mental characteristics - physical characteristics yes, of course. And this was my only point in saying I have Iranian friends who "are more Swedish than I am": not saying they SHOULD be more Swedish, not that they wouldn't be accepted if they weren't, just that they are and how is that possible if they would be born with "Arab" characteristics and I'd be born with my "Anglo(/Slavic)" characteristics? Wouldn't I naturally be the one who fits in better? It was NOT an example on how any country can assimilate people, it was an example of how people sometimes assimilate naturally. To spell it out: I have not boasted with my country's abiolity to assimilate anyone. I have just simply disagreed with you, and I still do no matter how many comments you make on me being naive and ridiculous. Frankly, I'd rather be both those things than go around feeling superior and thinking I know something about someone by their skin color.

Every time you've replied to one of my posts, I think you've deliberately missed my point and failed to answer my questions but instead twisted my words (or then just not understood them) and concntrated on how "naive" I am. I would for example still appreciate if you told me what you think the consequences of those racial differences are in society, as that's where we started from: you said you think as immigration increased, tension between racial groups increased and that these racial groups have diffent mental characteristics since birth, for example a higher/lower IQ. Do you in other words think that the fact that some racial groups are doing worse in society is due to those characteristics?

A question for Alando. Shouldn't London and New York by your reasoning be very poor cities with not much work? Afterall they are cities with huge immigrant populations.

I'm amazed by this thread; I can find myself agreeing with some of Gazpacho's comments!!!

Filbert,

that has to be one of the all-time worst deductions on your part :p