Way to go Bill from NYC when you wrote ...

Am fully aware that this was most definately not the original poster's intent for this thread .... but thanks from one of us ( that have avoided this discussion due to political differences stated and restated over time .....

Filbert: Your are not naive, your observation of mutual assurance is a good point. You are also right in saying that, at the end of the day it is all charity. How the U.S. policy in Iraq was drawn into this discussion is beyond me. The two are not related.

Alando,

Despite our disagreement on the subject, congrats on the gig in Japan. I'm glad to hear you were able to land it. Sounds great! It may be a first step, but that's how they all start!

No! I could have responded to your comments, but as I had said in my previous post, I chose to no longer involve myself in the disagreement, because it wasn't worth the effort. But, if its what pulls your chain, be my guest. Argue away, or "claim victory" even though nothing could be further from the truth.

Wolf

I posted my opinions here, why no country should give help to the US beyond maybe manpower, reminded me what I read a while back in the "Who will help us!!" and this today in the New York Time online about the scarey situtation in Mexico:
In the Border Brutality, Discerning a Bright Side

Mexico has it own very serious problem and if not solved will eventually become a US problem. Fighting the drug cartels is just as serious as the war on terror for the US. I think many people in the US forget that these drug cartels are still around.

The drug cartels will and have corrupt governments, corrupt societies in those countries they control, use extreme violence to get what they want and prey on the weak member of the societies like vampires. A slow death for those the prey on.

It is fine for some in the US that believe Mexico gave the US aid, because it is charity but I think they are definitely wrong. I think Mexico should have kept their aid and use the money for their war.

So "who will help us!!!"? Well for one Mexico should not because the have a major problem that is not going to be easy solved or won anytime soon. Also the US is going to have to give aid to Mexico to help their drug war. Sound like a revolving door of help doesn't?

Bill

The problem I see with your idea is that by implementing a "we don't help anyone else because we need those resources here at home" the world would be a worst place.

Yes, Mexico needs to help itself. But the help sent to the U.S. was more than food or medicines. It was a political statement. It is saying, we care about you and here's the little help we can give you. Actually, the money value of the aid sent to the U.S. means nothing either to Mexico or the US. Como quitarle un pelo a un gato...but it means a lot politically.

And if such is the case, can't we say, yes we need better schools and jobs in Mexico so people stop leaving this country. But can't we just for once make an exception and send some of our limited resources to people in even more need, like those affected by the huracan. You know the answer.

As to your example, drug-dealers, I think, the U.S. has a certification process through which it gives money to countries, including Mexico, to fight the drug cartels. That money is closely watched by the U.S. and used in Mexico only for that end. And we are talking millions of dollars. So I don't see how a symbolic help to the U.S. makes a difference in the war against drug landlords. Or how Mexico sending a little help abroad will cause itself to be poorer and consequently an national security issue for the U.S.? I just see them as two totally different issues. They would have a connection if Mexico was sending help everywhere all the time.

Getting into the issue of drug-cartel fighting is really complex, but in general I think it is good for the U.S. to help drug-producing countries fight the drug cartels. That way, those countries can't say 1) It is the U.S. consumers demanding the product and paying the big dollars to drug dealers so it is a U.S. problem. or 2) Yes, it is also our problem but we don't have the money to fight them. They are so powerful.

Ok. That's how I see things.

Jabsch: The problem of drug cartels could be handled in a matter of hours if the Mexican Government were not so corrupt. A man here in the U.S. made such an attack in 1969 and within a couple of hours the Mexican President was on the phone to President Nixon. The man's name is G.Gordon Liddy, he ordered the entire U.S. Mexican border sealed off and all cars coming out of Mexico were searched completely. The lines to enter the U.S. from Mexico were backed up for miles while the searches were going on. During that few hours the amout of narcotics that were seized was stagering. So don't tell me how Mexico cannot police itself.

Hey DD it's funny you bring up a couple of convicted corrupt US politicos like Nixon and Liddy while calling Mexico corrupt. Gee you forgot Nixons former buddy ex VP Spiro Agnew who got busted taking kickbacks in the white house for sewer contracts in Baltimore! So yea, Mexico is corrupt but when you "live in a glass house you shouldn't throw stones" que no? And talking about drugs and cartels, where the hell do these drugs end up? And how is it that all these drugs get here? I can't hardly get a Cuban cigar and it's snowing cocaine on practically every city street in the US! So when you speak about corruption and drug prevention let's share the blame a little. Drug money! who's Bush's Secretary of Defense Rummy work for huh ? Yea the Pharmaceutical Co that's going to sell us all the "bird flu vacine",talk about drug pushers! Sabes Chavez!

Only if that country receiving the help happens to be the riches country in the world.

To me giving foreign aid to the US is like this, giving money to a beggar on the street. Who happens to be dressed in a three piece suit, his shoes are shine, hair comb and wears a Rolex watch. Some might laugh at the well dress beggar and walk away. Others like you and me would ask the well dress beggar what happen and why does he need help even before thinking about giving him a dime or 10 euros.

The beggar says “My house was blow away in a hurricane. I have no money to fix it, because my credit cards are maxed out buying this Rolex watch. I need some gas to drive my friends, who also lost their homes, to our locale country club to play a round of golf. My friend and I are depressed from losing ours homes and a golf game would help lift our sprits. I need the money now as gas prices are increasing”.

You and I would mention to the well dress beggar that if sells his Rolex watch that would go a long way to help him out of financial difficulties. The well dress beggar shakes his head and walks away.

The well dress beggar is the US and the Rolex watch is the deep tax cuts that have maxed out the credit cards creating the largest deficit in the US history. The golf game is the right wing conservatives in this country; their policy basically says help the rich in this country and the middle class will help themselves. They refuse to discuss increase taxes with the war in Afghanistan/Iraq (See there is a connection with the war and hurricane relief money), a new dug prescription Medicaid plan not even paid for and the major disasters have struck this county leaving a few ten of thousand homeless and major rebuilding in those area have to be paid for. These Right Wing Republicans still want to play their golf game and not pay the bills to meet the needs now and even the future bills that everyone know are coming.

And the world wants to help us?

Bill

Desert, yes the Mexican government is corrupt, just like the rest of countries in Latin America. That's basically what has caused Latin-American countries to stay in poverty. If we could invest in development all the money our politicians and government employees have stolen, Latin America would be a very different place. Things have improved just a little in Mexico, and a lot in places like Chile in that regard, but we are still a long way to go. I hate corrupt politicians and policeman. Actually, when I get pulled over by a policeman in Mexico I don't even give him time to "negotiate". I say things like "Officer, just give me my ticket please" and I drive away.

But the problem is huge, money is tight so as soon as people see the chance to take advantage of you, they do. It's horrible to live in a place where most people can't be trusted. I hate it. You have to be like a police watching everyone, your employees, your business partners, the government officials, everyone will take advantage of you. It is sad. Actually, my family finds unbelievable, that here in the U.S. people don’t take all the newspapers from self-service news-stands or that grocery stores are implementing self check-out cashier lines. I like that in the U.S., most times, you can mail a check and know it will get to the payee’s hands. I think that unless people become more honest, productive and reliable things won’t change much in developing countries.

But, Fulano is also right about his comments, the U.S. has its own, not so obvious, corruption problems.

As to the drug issue, most production of drugs doesn't happen in Mexico, but in South-America, and most consumption of drugs doesn't happen in Mexico, but in the U.S. So we have a double burden, to watch our southern border and coasts for incoming drugs, and the northen border for drugs trying to reach the U.S. I really consider fair that the U.S. share part of the job in this case. Not everything is to blame on Mexico.

Bill, the problem is that, at least on T.V., and news magazines like Time, those in New Orleans didn't look like wearing Rolex or owners of luxury cars. Watching images from New Orleans at the time, honestly, made me think of Africa, not the U.S. I couldn't believe my eyes. This event changed the very common belief, outside the U.S., that everyone in the U.S. is middle or upper class.

I will definitely say that the images of the US during the hurricane disaster did not show the U.S. in the best of light. Frankly what it did is put a spot light of some of the real problem in the US that many Americans, including myself, have chosen to ignore.

Bill