Gazpacho: Let me be the last person to say my govt is perfect. If anyone ever hears me say it is cut my tongue out. Which I am sure some of the left wingers on this board would derive great pleasure in doing now. I love my country but I fear my government.

Some of the politcal hacks that come to mind, Dan Rostenkowski, LBJ, Richard Nixon,Wilbur Mills, Ted Kennedy. The list could go on and on from both side of the isle. Some of the shady deals that come to mind, Watergate, Iran/Contra, Billy Carter being a foriegn agent for Libya while his brother was in the Oval Office. I will admit I tend to remember the crooked Democrats better than the crooked Republicans. The Republicans tend to be simply victims of circumstance and in the wrong place at the wrong time. The Democrats are all a bunch of bastards, out to screw you out of your last nickle. Can you believe people actually get on this board and accuse me of being biased?

As far as a guest worker law is concerned, GWB has been in office for over 4 years now. When ever a member of the press mentions it to him he always says " yeah that is a good idea I think we should have that." He has had over four years now and still not sent anything to congress, and they have not sent one to him for a signature. What it is, is political pay back to Fox for not sending troops to Iraq. He has no intention of setting up a guest worker law, until late in his adminstration, then it will be so he can woo the Hispanic vote for the next Republican Pres. candidate."Look what we did for you." Contrary to popular belief, of some on this board, he is no dummy.

As far as Hillary is concerned, don't bet the farm on it.

Agree with everything DD,

It finally dawned on me the other day. In the literal meaning of the word, it was a Repulican, Abraham Lincoln, who abolished slavery in the 1860's and a Democrat, Franklin Rooselvelt who reestablished it in the 1930s. Yeah, I hate those bums with every paycheck.

Jabch:The American employer is required to have proof of legal residency to hire someone now. There was an article in the Las Vegas paper two weeks ago about getting false ID and the prices of different quality of work on the card. According to that article, a high quality false card goes for about $250 and takes about 2 hours to get. As far as housing is concerned, to rent a house or apartment, no proof of residency is required. We would not do that, as it would not look good around the world for as you say "the most powerful country on earth" to be having people living in the streets. We have some homeless people now but not to the magnitude it would be if proper ID was required. Buying a car and house are another subject. If a person goes to a private party and buys the car, it is not that big of a deal, but to a dealer it would be more difficult. Purchasing a house is an entirely different subject, and difficult to say the least.

As far as your comment about Mexico and China. The US government creates "favored nation status" to entice US business to invest in certain areas. China has favored nation status at this time. The objective is to get as many Chinese working and producing so that the American business man will hold a polictical axe over the head of the Chinese government. The US has for years not been in any hurry to engage in a military conflict with China. When you aid the economy of a country that lowers the chance of military conflict.

As far as you comment about Wal-Mar, you don't want to know what I think of their business practice. Your stomach could not handle what I would have to say about that company.

Massive investment of capital in Mexico from the American businessman. That is always a good idea, but we want to be on an even footing not having to payoff every politician and his dog. Remember what I said about my partners and my experience in Mexico. You are probably right, it would be to the American businessman's advantage to invest in Mexico to relieve some of the social problems on both sides of the border.

On a personal note about China. One of the things my business does is build new houses and recondition old ones for resale. A few years ago we could order concrete with only a two day notice to the plant. Now because so much concrete is being shipped to China, we have to order two weeks in advance.

As per you comment about my employees loyalty, I suppose you could have a point. However I noticed that you did not have any input when I told you that today, after I posted your comment about me needing a therapist, that they all cheered you on, and that you are now their hero. So much for employee loyalty. As far as asking the people on this board what they think of me, they are all convinced that I am a worm. You think I need to be told that. There are somethings I can figure out on my own Jabch. One last question, you commented about my signature Phantom Man do you have any idea what that is all about?

Desert Dweller said:
Not all, Desert Dweller, I for one do not think you are a worm, far from it! I enjoy your libertarian point-of-view and sometimes I even enjoy your sense of humor.

What I admire about your posts most is that you are willing to admit you are wrong and you are willing to spend the time and explain your position, without resorting to trite remarks.

The problem is really very simple, when discussing an issue face-to face with another person we have the ability to see the body language involved in the remark. On bulletin boards such as these we cannot see your facial expression.

Recently on the Spanish only part of this board, a member used a nasty slang word that I found unnecessary and called him on it, he explained that he was attempting to use irony to make his point. Had I been in a face to face conversation, I would have understood implicitly that he was being ironic. But not in posts.

It is evident to me, DD that you have definite beliefs and reasons behind your beliefs about illegal immigration from Mexico. Likewise, other members like Jabch, have equally compelling reasons behind his beliefs. Both of your beliefs are equally valid in the sense that they are your beliefs. But, are your beliefs valid?

You have each gathered those facts that bolster your argument and cement your beliefs with them. Which one of you is right? I don't know. And I don't think anyone of us really knows. All we do know is that it is a complex issue and that there is no easy answer.

What irks me is those that wish to silence the voices that differ from theirs! They really scare me. They speak about the greatness of dialogue, as long as that dialogue falls within their belif system.

My two cents worth!

I agree Booklady,

And I e-mailed him to tell him that at least with him, I can detect a brain behind his words. What better evidence is there to support a view than direct perception? I would rather listen to evidence given by someone in the frontlines than a newspaper reading statitician. The fact that he is intelligent enought to run a business might sway me also.

As to which point of view is correct? We are fortunate to have reality as the final arbitrator, and that's good enough for me.

Gazpacho and Booklady: Thanks for the kind words. I guess the two of you shot down my theory of batting a thousand. Here I thought I had everyone on this board pissed off.

It is easy for people in other parts of the US and world to sit by and make pot shots at me for my views. They are not here and see the things that I see, or experience the things that I do.

The US and Mexico have lived in peaceful coexistance for years. The US has made great strides to bolster the Mexican economy and basically ran pourous border turning a blind eye to the illegal immigration problem. Not rigidly enforceing the laws of the US on the south border. The things that we have done openly and under the table to help Mexico, then two years ago GWB goes to his personal friend Sr. Fox and ask for help with a very unpleasant task. Sr. Fox as we all know said no, he would not return the favors that had been granted Mexico over the years. All of my friends and business associates could not believe Fox did that. Then I read where a citizen of Mexico "expects" something from the US, that sets my blood boiling.

What even throws me for winder is that people here on this board do not see the correlation between the sudden slow down of the American business operations in Mexico and Saddam. Suddenly business that was going to Mexico is now going to China. Suddenly the US needs 2500 more Border Patrol officer on the Mexican border. Someone yesterday said they were "baffled" at my realtionship of the drop of Mexican production from US business interest and Saddam. The Mexican people and Mexican economy are paying very dearly for that "NO" answer two years ago.

Incidently do you think those Canadian cattle have mad cow diease, or do they have Saddamitis. It is not nice to turn your back on friend when he comes asking for help with a dirty job.

Desert Dweller,

It's a shame that the average American doesn't get a chance to voice his opinion in the media (almost said leftist media, but why waste words) and his efforts to preserve this country go widely unreported as well. All that we get out of it is left-wing elitist drivel, that is, America is the biggest evil that ever existed. And now we hear from the Dems, not surprisingly thank you Mr. Dean, that White Christians are causing all the current problems in the world?

The corollaries you point out, that is, our businessmen's relationship to our "friends", in an unbiased press, would be reported. I'm relieved to hear stories about people like you, who can think on their own, and take action in their own hands, even if it isn't reported.

You make it sound really scary. If I wouldn't know that you probably see me as really "leftist" or "socialist" I'd probably be really afraid of them. I find it funny that while you seem to find media biased in the other direction, I always react on that when many US papers write about for example problems that the Spanish government is facing, the story usually says "Spain's socialist government". Our papers never mention those things unless it's something really radical, let's say extreme right, so I'd imagine that's how you feel about the word "socialist". You think we "demonize" the US system, I think you demonize ours.
The words have a very different meaning for you and me, too: in my country most "right-wing" people still support free health care and education and words like "leftist" and "socialist" are mostly used for very left-wing people and parties, and being somewhere in the middle I find it a bit strange to suddenly be "leftist".

Don't feel bad Pia, once on this board, I was called a Communist! :p

It boils down to semantics. Or,how we define words. For example the word "liberal" differs greatly depending on which side of the Atlantic you live. The same applies to the left and right. How we use it only applies to usage here and it seldom really translates to how it is used abroad.

Here's a good explanation of liberal as used in the U.S. only.
http://www.answers.com/topic/liberalism-in-the-united-states

Pia,

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say. No offense, you speak 1000% better English than I ever will Finnish, and that's my fault, not yours. But if you mean that you are scared of our politics, then let me tell you what scares me. The U.S. becoming another people's republic like a European country, or even becoming another Canada scares me to death.

Socialism doesn't have to be extreme to scare me. As a matter of fact it's the mediocrity of socialist countries, and their inability to reinvent themselves that worry me the most.