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#78609 - 10/30/04 05:49 AM Re: Florida ballots - they did it again!!!
Wolf Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 1235
Loc: Rockford, IL/Milton, WI, USA
I didn't see anywhere in the article that was linked, where the slow ballot delivery had anything to do with the Governor.

Since there doesn't seem to be any links that show he may have had anything to do with these ballots, why are people casting allusions in that direction?

Personally, I wasn't a bit pleased with what happened in Florida four years ago, but I can't in any way consider that as part of this ballot issue.

What strikes me as rather stupid is that the Democratic machine down there didn't do something to "insure" that the ballots were sent out sooner if it was going to be a problem.

If they didn't monitor what was happening, and participate in the process, they are totally ignorant.

As far as the post office... I certainly wouldn't think that the rank and file people who work there would go along with any "Republican master plan for victory," since the vast majority of postal workers happen to be Democrats.

Wolf

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#78610 - 10/30/04 05:52 AM Re: Florida ballots - they did it again!!!
Booklady Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 1664
Loc: U.S.A.
Sorry MM, but it looks like your fair state of Ohio is sharing top billing with Florida! Folks in Ohio registered Mary Poppins, in this " Coke for Votes " effort!! eek

Quote:
'Mary Poppins' Registers to Vote in Ohio
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041019/D85QG8S80.html

Oct 19, 8:11 AM (ET)

DEFIANCE, Ohio (AP) - Elections officials knew something was wrong when they got voter registration cards for Mary Poppins, Dick Tracy, Michael Jordan and George Foreman.

They notified the Defiance County sheriff, who arrested Chad Staton on Monday on a felony charge of submitting phony voter registration forms. Investigators also were looking into allegations that he was paid with cocaine in exchange for his efforts.

Staton, 22, had fraudulently filled out more than 100 voter registration forms, Sheriff David Westrick said.

"Staton was to be paid for each registration form that he could get citizens to fill out," the sheriff said. "However, Staton himself filled out the registrations and returned them to the woman who hired him from Toledo."

Staton was charged with false registration and was released without bond pending arraignment.

No other charges had been filed in the case Monday, authorities said.

According to Westrick, the NAACP's National Voter Fund had submitted the false registrations to the elections board in Cleveland. George Forbes, Cleveland chapter president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, said Monday that the voter fund operates independently from his chapter.

Officers said they interviewed a Toledo woman who claimed that she had paid Staton with cocaine for the registrations. Officers said they obtained a search warrant and took voter registrations and drug paraphernalia from her home.

The woman claimed she had been recruited by a Cleveland man to obtain voter registrations, Westrick said.
_________________________
The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.
--St. Augustine (354-430)

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#78611 - 10/30/04 07:08 AM Re: Florida ballots - they did it again!!!
Wolf Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 1235
Loc: Rockford, IL/Milton, WI, USA
Bookie,

Do you think Jeb Bush was behind these ballots in Ohio? rolleyes Conspirator theorists would buy into it.

You have to like the title of this thread. "They did it again!" Who is "they?" Did what again? I guess that's what conspiracy buffs always see. If it wasn't Jed Bush, it had to be aliens from some far off galaxy who are Republicans... wink

I think the fact is that there are going to be mistakes made everywhere, but by and large, there isn't anything too big that will slip through the cracks. There's too many watch dogs out there making sure things stay on the up and up.

I think Florida will go for Kerry this time around. It may be close but I give him the edge because of the fiasco four years ago.

The problem is, can he carry Wisconsin, Michigan, and Ohio? If he can't he's gonna lose. If he does, where do we go with a President who is a Democrat and the Senate and House controlled by the Republicans.

As Monty Hall would say; "Let's make a deal!"

Wolf

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#78612 - 10/30/04 07:53 AM Re: Florida ballots - they did it again!!!
ebetancourt Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 51
Loc: Tennessee
People accusing governors or the President of manipulating local elections must not understand that the election process is mostly managed locally by local boards. They are pretty independent and would flare at any outside interference. Everyone seems to forget the famous "hanging chad" ballot in Florida was approved by a Democratically controlled board. The absentee ballots are another thing. PA's governor is trying to prevent overseas ballots from counting. Why? Most overseas ballots are from the military and support Bush 3 to 1. But when you are counting millions of votes there are bound to be errors, and in something this close it's inevitable that some people would try to influence the vote.

Of course if the Democratic party had picked a quality candidate it wouldn't be close.

ernie

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#78613 - 10/30/04 01:46 PM Re: Florida ballots - they did it again!!!
Cristobo Carrín Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 136
Loc: Asturias
Those theory conspiracists are so stupid, he he...
But just for the sake of discussion, let´s see again the title of the thread: "Florida ballots: they did it again!!!"
It is a very ambiguous title, which implies
1st-We don`t know who did it, after all.
2nd-We don`t know exactly what they did, either.
You ask, Wolf, what did they do. OK, in a nutshell, how about a filthy bungle? How about an entangled, unefficient, bad managed and un-clean ellection process?
How about the leading democracy of the world, being run by a man appointed by a council of twelve sages? (well, I don`t know how many members do sit in the Supreme Court).
How about the letter that a Senegalese man sent to Time Magazine, offering to send Senegalese experts on clean ellections to the US?
I have seen in this discussion the same old gap between left and right. Now conservatives seem to be totally sure that there was nothing wrong in Florida 2000 ellections, good for them. Otherwise, they would have to believe George W.Bush became the president through a coup, but sure conservatives would never let their political views blind them against such a life or death issue.
There is something appealing in conspiracy theories. It is not so easy to let them apart: some people believe there was something wrong and obscure in all the 2000 ellections, others believe that numberless hordes of terrorists are working to conquer the world, out of sheer hatred against good and freedom.

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#78614 - 10/30/04 02:23 PM Re: Florida ballots - they did it again!!!
Wolf Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 1235
Loc: Rockford, IL/Milton, WI, USA
Cristobo,

You totally missed the point. What did "they" do, and to "whom?" The people staffing the election board in that particular area are predominantly Democrats, so therefore you must mean "they" would sabotage their own area's election.

Then, what is it they did? Did they drop the ballots off at the post office too late? Did they "arrange" for the post office to delay mailing even though the post office wouldn't do that? So... our elections are rigged because the ballots went out a little late, as a worse case scenario. If it would have any effect it would have been to the advantage of the Democrats in this case, since the claim in the last election was that the number of absentee ballots that favor the Republicans far outweigh the Democrats. "They," as you refer to them, would only be hurting themselves, but it wouldn't be a good "conspiracy theory" if you admitted that would it?

So... like I ask... Who is they? Second question... What did they do?

On the question of numbers when it comes to terrorists, you obviously have a handle on how many there are. So... tell me; How many are there?

Your charge was "ambiguous." I also believe you do it intentionally to create a discussion on the issue. I have no problem with that. I don't think anyone does. Even if we strongly disagree with what you said.

Wolf

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#78615 - 10/30/04 06:14 PM Re: Florida ballots - they did it again!!!
desert dweller Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 553
Loc: Desert of Arizona
Wolf: I am with you if Martin hates the US that much, he needs to walk into the US Emabassy and renounce his citizenship. They have the papers to do it in stock. I will point out that even Oswald had second thoughts after he had renounced his citizenship in the "Workers Paradise of the USSR" and went home with the help of the US taxpayers. Martin the address of the Embassy has not changed in many years it is 210 Calle Serrano, I have been in it several times.

I am also with you Wolf about who this mystical "they" is.? I have never personally met one of these mystical memebers of the crowd of "they" but I have been hearing a lot about "they" now for over 52 years.
_________________________
Phantom Man

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#78616 - 10/30/04 06:40 PM Re: Florida ballots - they did it again!!!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Martin can always do that if he wants to, and he can decide by hmself whether he ever wanted to do that and the moment he wanted to do it.

But being critical does not mean hate, sometimes you critizise something you love because you want it to improve.

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#78617 - 10/30/04 07:38 PM Re: Florida ballots - they did it again!!!
gazpacho Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 797
Loc: Macomb, MI U.S.
Wolf,

I like the aliens rigging the election theory. Fits right in with Halloween. eek eek eek

Ignacio,

Don't you think that it's pretty hateful calling the U.S. a fascist state? Grant you, it wouldn't be if it were true, but c'mon, no one is being hauled off and shot for political differences....that's an absurdity, and anyone who would utter such a lie, either hates this country, or is utterly irresponsible. I prefer to believe it was just an irresponsible utterance. confused
_________________________
"I swear -by my life and my love of it -that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

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#78618 - 10/30/04 11:40 PM Re: Florida ballots - they did it again!!!
Pingüino Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Destin FL
Gazpacho,

Like you, I just about disagree with everything Martin says, but in his defense, I will say that because he is/was an American citizen, and familiar with the way we do things, he should be able to say anything about our country - good, bad or indifferent.
To paraphrase Larry Flynt, another person who I cannot agree with except for this one thing -
Freedom of expression is not to defend the thing you love, but the thing you hate.
As for the vote here in Florida, let's see if all us clueless provincial hicks can figger out hoo 2 ellect. rolleyes

Cogito cogito ergo sum cogito

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