Cristobo,

I'm pretty sure I never said "faithful" ally. And, if you read my post, I don't particularly care for them as an ally, but there you go. For better or worse, we don't need you picking our friends for us.

In my experience, Arab-Americans are warmer and friendlier than Jewish-Americans. So I have no preference personally for Jewish-Americans. Our government considers Israel an ally, overlooking some bad blood. My Dad told me, although I don't know how to confirm this, that the U.S. was the first country to recognize the Israeli state.

As far as recognizing truth, I could tell after the first paragraph that the essay was biased. If I could consider it objective, I would have done more than just scan it. And think I did. I thought it stunk. Very clearly, it served the Palestinian point of view on the conflict, that's who it served. Bush, capitalism, corporate America....oh my!

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Cristobo, actually, all your correspondance (snail mail and email), the books you check out at the library, and now, thanks to the Patriot Act, your financial dealings, school records, etc. etc. ARE examined by the government. Two computer programs of the FBI and CIA do the electronic eavesdropping on ALL (yep, ALL) electronic communication including telephones, radios and computers. Really creepy.

Gazpacho, Israel is one area about which we are in complete agreement. Will wonders never cease?!

Gazpacho:

I never said or implied (at least meant) that you were the one who critisized Zapatero and our election, I was just pointing out that politics is a matter of opinion, and nowadays anybody can have and expose an opinion on any political topic, and there is no need to be so defensive because somone doesn't agree to our political choices.

Martin de Madrid- Actually, the Patriot Act does not mean that "Big Brother is Watching You". The Patriot Act does give the government the ability to obtain secret search warrants, and may monitor your phone conversations etc., but they would have to get a warrant to do so. And unless you are doing something you probably shouldn't, the average citizen is not having their phones and emails monitored by the govrenment.

Gosh, this is hard to say,

But Martin is correct that all our communications are being monitored. I can't remember the name of the program that does this, but it seems like the name is 'enigma' or something like that. But, this is not the result of The Patriot Act, this has been around for over twenty years. From what I remember, all of our communications are sorted through electronically, and of course, certain words trigger deeper investigation.

I don't like it either, but like I said, this has been around long before The Patriot Act.

One more thing Martin and I probably agree on. I sure don't feel any safer because some moron bureaucrat in our government has the power to monitor our conversation. I think the saying goes "those who sacrifice freedom for security, sooner or later lose both."

Surprised to read this from you. True, that program is previous to the Patriot act, and informations obtained through its random search were said to have been given (sold?) to USA firms by NSA or whatever agency runs it, who took advantage, in european firms buy-out.

The program is called Echelon.

In English

Gazapho, Martin de Madrid and others -
Who did originally write or make the comment?
I want to say it was from the book 1984 by George Orwell but that is probably way too trite an answer ....

Right Ignacio,

I happened to remember the name over night. It has been so long since I'd read and article about it. Echelon, Enigma......

Why is it so surprising that I know about such evil things being done by a democratic government Ignacio? I don't believe in Utopia, but I believe that the U.S. is the closest the world has ever come. I have no illusions that everything our government does is right, or that capitalism is perfect. Both are just so much better than the second best alternatives. The hard fact is, any entity; person, company, state, must take actions to ensure it's survival.

I find it hard to understand your moral paradox that it's okay for the ETA to perform acts of terrorism, yet you consider the U.S.'s actions against Iraq to be immoral. Or that someone can support Palestinian use of atrocities, and yet yell in outrage against the Israelis using atrocities. Or someone can be outraged at corporate America, Dick Cheney, Haliburton...and not be outraged at European oil for food scams...... How bout just a little intellectual honesty?

Sorry Puna,

I looked in "Peter's Quotations" and did a short web search and couldn't find a source for this quote. It has also been so long since I heard this that I am sure I'm paraphrasing it. But it's a good quote, I wouldn't mind having attributed to myself. I know I heard it from my Dad so I didn't make it up. You don't hear it much now days when I'm afraid it's sorely needed. It outrages me that in an effort to be so sensitive about a very distinctive small sector of the world, that everyone must have their privacy compromised.

Cristobo,

For a period of time I have been reading the board but not posting. I thought it was time for a hiatus.

What puzzles me about the site you referred us to in the beginning of this thread is the fact that there isn't one solitary article, or link, that says the US did anything right at any time or place over the last forty years. Not once did it speak of the humanitarian efforts the US has focused around the world, and not once did it mention that the Palestinians have been as agregious as the Israelis when it came to perpetuation of the present hostilities. Not once did it mention that the Palestinians used suicide bombers and rocket attacks against Israelis to rekindle the hostilities.

In other words, the whole basis of the site is intended to point out anything it can that is "anti-US," without taking the time to assess the relative value of the theories it has expounded.

As for our press, you may think we have a lot of "cover-ups," but Americans believe that our press is actually liberal, and therefore gives details that would often be "unpatriotic," if you're a right winger. As far as the "facts" about deaths, etc., we knew that, if we read our mags and newspapers. As for the unemployment, when was the last time you read about a Palestinian group opening up a factory, or facility that manufactured products other than bombs to attack the Israelis? I'm afraid their entire focus is a war against Israel.

Here's a link that you should read. I would have thought you would have done the research yourself, but apparently your mindset was to find fault with US instead of delving into the entire truth of the USS Liberty issue. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/liberty.html

Of course this site won't give you the same perspective, but if you look at how the story reads, they go into minute details of what happened, and they don't use inuendo and unsubstantiated charges to make their story float like the links you offered have done.

The USS Liberty incident was unfortunate, but what it was an accident.

Wolf

Excellent post, as usual, Wolf. Welcome back from your hiatus.
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