This topic has degenerated into such petty nonsense it should just be deleted.

TO CLARIFY, I'm not being insensitive, I saw the whole thing too close for comfort:
http://www.slack.net/~lsigler/imagenes/nyc2001/trade_center

However this has been going on in the world for a long time and will continue to happen unfortunately.

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: MadridMan ]

Asterault, your photos are amazing.

As for the rest of this thread, I agree, it's gotten out of hand.

Tara

Getting back to the original chatter...
Just wanted to share this lovely message that uplifted my spirits ... wonderful insight!

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Bomb Them with Butter
Written in Ulaan Baatar, Mongolia
September 14, 2001
Dear friends,

The terrorists have defined the game and we are reacting. They are clever, patient and creative. They planned their attacks for months and executed them with great effectiveness. They are not stupid, so they have made plans for the expected American military response. An attack on Afghanistan is exactly what the terrorists want. It will strengthen and swell their small but fanatical ranks. What better opportunity to destabilize Pakistan, foment a coup and establish another Islamic fundamentalist state. Imagine several divisions of US troops as hostages in an Islamic state which holds nuclear weapons!

Instead, bomb Afghanistan with butter, with rice, bread, clothing and medicine. It costs less than conventional arms, poses no threat of US casualties, and just might get the Afghan populace thinking that the Taliban leaders don't have the answers. After years of drought, with starvation looming, let's offer the Afghani people the vision of a new future. One that includes full stomachs.

Barrage them with information; video players and cassettes of world leaders, particularly Islamic leaders, condemning terrorism. Carpet the country with magazines and newspapers showing the horror of the acts committed by their "guest". Blitz them with laptop computers and DVD players filled with a perspective that is denied them by their government. Saturation bombing with truth will mean that some of it gets through. Send so much that the Taliban can't collect and hide it all.

The Taliban are telling their people to prepare for Jihad. In response, let's give the Afghani people their first good meal in years. Seeing your family fully fed and the prospect of a stable future is a powerful deterrent to martyrdom. All we ask in return is that they, as a people, agree to enter the civilized world. That includes allowing international law to run its course. Let's offer them a helping hand into the 21st century.

In responding to terrorism we need to do something different... something totally unexpected... something that addresses the root of the problem instead of exacerbating it. We need to be wiser and more clever than the terrorists. We need to define the contest on our terms, not theirs. We need to take away the well of despair, ignorance, and brutality from which the Osama bin Ladens of the world water their gardens of terror.

We have the technology. Do we have the compassion?

Kent Madin

Ulaan Baatar, Mongolia

(This is an idea.. feel free to distribute it)


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copyright 2001 by Kent Madin, Boojum Expeditions

Permission to reprint, distribute, disseminate, read out loud on street corners, drop from airplanes or tape to your cat is granted to everyone.

We're bombing them with butter right now, and have been for years. The US, Japan and Germany just shipped 2000 tons of wheat to Afghanistan. The US has been the largest supplier of food and humanitarian aid to Afghanistan for years. Doesn't seem to have made too much of an impression.

Meanwhile, some Afghans aren't even aware of what has happened or what is brewing in the outside world. Thats how remote some places are there. And at the Muslim religious schools across the border in Pakistan, they are taught, and fervently believe, that the Sept. 11 attacks were carried out by Jews and Indians to give Islam a bad name.

It would be a tremendous favor to the Afghan people to rid them of the Taleban regiem. Maybe then our butter and tape recorders might do some good.

Booklady, That's a interesting perspective! I'm not sure if it would work but its still intersting.

Did anyone else notice that the Parliament building in the Indian state of Kashmir was just blown up, killing about thirty? Seems to be the work of -GASP- Islamic militants, trained and financed by Mr. bin Laden. Of course, it is the worst kept secret in Washington that the Kashmiri separatists are fully supported and armed by the Pakistani Interservice Inteligence Agency (the very same ones who gave us the Taleban!). But Pakistan is our valiant ally in the war on terrorism, they said so!

I think I'll e-mail Sheena and talk about jamon serrano. It'll make me feel better.

There is a Spanish connection to what happened on Sept. 11. Mohammed Atta, the probable ringleader of the Sept. 11 campaign, was in Spain for 11 days in July. He met bin Laden operatives Nizar Trablisi and Mohamed Belaziz in Salou and Cascante. Trablisi and Belaziz wer arrested two weeks ago in Pamplona. They have confessed to participating in a plot to launch a suicide attack on the US embassy in Paris in Spring, 2002.Both Trablisi and Belaziz are known associates of Djamel Beghal, a Tunisian considered bin Laden's top lieutenant in western Europe. He also has confessed to the Paris embassy plot. Atta's July trip to Spain appers to be his last trip out of the US before the attacks. Obviously, this was a final organizational meeting with bin Laden's higher-ups, Atta was just a 'foot soldier'. And this happened in Spain.


(source: Chicago Tribune, 10/6/01. www.chicagotribune.com )

This is just my opinion, USA seem to be making progress in their bombing of Afghanistan, just breaking news - 100 civilians reported killed- my view on America has changed, I had always wished to visit there, but I won't be going there. I think the USA will never be safe again - I think a new generation of Muslims will emerge and carry on the work of Bin Laden in the future, its a known fact many many nuslims will die for there country, american/english soldiers wont! thats scary! I wont be surprised if something similar to 11th Sept happens again in the years to come.
but hope not though

Just of of curiosity Beckham, what do you mean when you say American and British soldiers aren't willing to die for their country? That seems to be a completely ignorant and poorly phrased statement. Every US and English soldier that goes into service openly accepts the fact that during service they may die for their country and many have. Now, if you are saying, are US and Brit soldiers willing to board a civilian flight in a different country to blow themselves and innocent civilians up, that would be a resounding NO.

As far as never wanting to go to the U.S. because you don't feel it is safe, then I wonder what are all these images I keep seeing in the media of bombing and attacks of innocent Irish citizens? I'm of Irish heritage and my ancestors came to the US as immigrants generations ago in a quest of a better life. We have found that here and love this country.

if you do not approve of the way that the US has handled the situation in Afghanistan I was was wondering what you feel would have been a better way. Do you recommend diplomacy with an oppressive regime which is owned by a terrorist(Bin Laden is the number one fianancial benefactor to the Taliban with 100 million in 5 years) that just killed thousands of our citizens. I admit that I think terrorism is not going away anytime soon and that what's going on now as far as milirary action could fuel additional upheaval but this is not a situation with an easy solution and it wasn't something that we were looking for.

Jamie - Have you ever looked at a map of Ireland??? Do you know the difference between North and South? If not here is - Media coverage is of the bombing in the North, I live in the South, looks like you forgot your Irish hertiage, if you hadn't then you would know!
Never said that I didn't approve of the way the US has handled the situation... I always had this view of US but now I just would not feel safe going there knowing the there is a strong possiblilty of terrorist activity.