Well said Wolf and Oso.

Ignacio, as I read the article I noticed that the writer was very selective by focusing his attention only on one country: the United States. The United States is not the culprit of the world.

What he was trying to achieve was to diminish the meaning of the deaths of the people that died on September 11,2001. That is wrong. You cannot diminish or undermine what happened to those people on that day by saying, well worse happended to these people and these people and these people.

Why did the writer do that? Because he wanted to marginalize the pain of the people of the United States. In essense he was saying your pain is no greater than anyone else's. That argument is wrong and lacks verisimilitude.

If he were truly as shocked by man's inhumanity to man he would have been more convincing if he listed all of the episodes where people have died.

He failed to convince me because he failed to mention the millions of people killed by Saddam Hussein and his party during the years of his tyranny. Not to mention the thousands of Kuwaitis, Kurds and Iranians. Don't they too deserve a little time?

He failed to convince me because he failed to mention the millions of Asian peoples killed by the Japanese prior to second world war, not to mention the thousands of innocent men, women and children in China, Oceania, the Phillipines, Korea, etc during the war. Don't they too deserve a little time?

He failed to mention the millions of Jews that were butchered by the Nazi regime and their European cohorts during World War II. Don't they too deserve a little time?

He failed to mention the millions of soviet people that fell to the Soviet empire in the Gulag. Don't they too deserve a little time?

He failed to mention the millions of Arab peoples that perished during the European crusades. Don't they too deserve a little time?

Oso already mentioned the horror of the Americas, and the deaths and decimations of the native peoples and then the African diaspora.

The list is long,and if you go far enough it covers all peoples, so I won't continue. If the writer were honest he would have said we are all culprits, but he did not.

Of course, there is some evil in the world that is not produced by the USA foreign policy. I won't object that.

But the fact that jews were killed and all the rest doesn't make all those killings and invasions less unfair and bloody.

I suppose the reason why he doen't mention them is just because he is speaking of the USA foreign policy and not of all the possible massacres in History.

I heard that justification for the nukes, and it simply laughable. Yes, the USA threw the bomb on civilians (ain't that a terrorist act? what woud you think on a nuke in NY tomorrw?) against all war rules, proving themselves in this sense as evil as the british bombing Dresden or the nazis Gernika.

As for the Spanish empire, it was not a tenth as bloody as the anglo-saxon media has widespread, or as the anglo-saxon methods themselves in the very N.Am. and other colonies. Anyway, it was an empire by the force of the guns, and it was created 500 years ago, when most of the actual cruelties wee made. I would like to believe that in 500 years we have learnt something, but we haven't since the USA behaves as ruthlessly as the conquerors 500 years before. Wrong both cases, but those were times of taking things by the sword, ..., and these seem too, for the USA.

Saying that the USA does things because people are being harassed by their governments is considered a good joke, outside the USA. The USA not only don't do anything against many governments who makes their people slaves, but also helps them when it suits their interests. Like in Israel and their invasions of Palestina, Lebanon, and Syria, ..., like Noriega in Panamá, like the very Saddam, who was gasing this people with the USA looking somewhere else.

For those not blind, there is a clear reason for Afghanistan (revenge) and Irak (oil) that has nothing to do with freeing people. Let's face facts not try to foolish our conscience!

Booklady and Wolf,

At first glance, it would appear that Ignacio's postings are thinly disguised anti-U.S. propaganda, but I've come to realize it isn't. It is the same crap we hear in the U.S. by our liberal mass media. The current liberal dogma is that our president can do no good and is responsible for all evil that exist and has ever existed in the world. Anyone, including butchers like Saddam, that opposes our president is an enlightened benefactor to mankind. We are so inundated with this message, that it is a wonder that we don't all feel that way.
I apologize to Ignacio for my previous posting about the intelligence of Europe. There is nothing unique to Europe concerning falling prey to evil leftist socialist liberal misinformation. I guess the death bell tolls for independent rational thought and for that we should all concede a moment of silence.
Could anyone explain to me why they think it important to provide articles that support their points of view on this thread? Sure, some of these writer's are well educated and erudite, but is their opinions really any more important than your own? I really like Booklady's postings because it's satisfying to see that some writer's have some of the same thoughts on subjects that I do, but I hardly need them for validation of my reasoning. But given the amount of information/misinformation available on every topic imaginable, can't we all find articles to support any side we take with any issue? Why then do posters share these articles with us, and why does someone as confident about his opinion as Ignacio is, feel he has to spend time researching articles that support his point of view?

Ignacio...there are NO INNOCENT countries. They all have their own self interests and believe me whether they've been manipulated internally or externally, it's all selfish!

We did forget to mention the Spanish Civil War. Why did a million Spaniards have to die? Franco's self interests.

Your comment regarding that "there is some evil in the world that is not produced by the USA foreign policy. I won't object that." That's so laughable, I couldn't believe it... some evil. SOME EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? That's like saying...yes, there are some Chinese that live in Asia. Or, yes, Hitler did kill some Jews. Come on!!! The majority of the evil in the world is not due to America's foreign policy.

The US was sucked into both world wars. It wasn't our choice. Hitler's U boats and Pearl Harbor forced us into it. The Japanese were warned repeatedly that the US was prepared to drop the bomb on their country. It was the Japanese Army's refusal to surrender and to continue fighting that made the US drop it. Yes, what a horror, hundred's of thousands of innocent as well as military were killed, instantly! Did the Japanese army warn the people of Manchuria before invading it, slaughtering millions of men, women, and children? Sexually enslaving thousands of Korean and Phillipine women? What about the horrors of the concentration camps which were more ruthless than Hitler's? Their policy was as racist as Hilter's, to enslave the white man and make them pay for their intrusions into Asia. All other Asians were beneath them and deserved to be conquered; sounds familiar? I know Im repeating what Booklady mentioned, but it needed repeating.

Please don't tell me (and I know you didn't) that all the problems in Africa are due to American foreign policy. I blame that on Europe, carving up country after country to expand their own imperialistic control. Let's face it, Spain didn't leave a great mark in Latin America when it comes to government. The US hasn't done any better.

Stalin's slaughter of 30,000,000 Russians is some evil too right? And the desaparecidos in Argentina and other parts of Latin America is some evil too right.

By your comment some evil , you minimized the other atrocities of the world. Whether it was your intention or not!

Excellent points, Gazpacho.

I know your question was rhetorical, right? About the gathering of articles that are germane to the topic at hand?

I can only speak on my behalf, and I have to admit that it is my academic training as a professional librarian. You just cannot "kill" about thirty years of training that reinforces the provision of substantiation for your ideas, and giving credit for the ideas of others. Mainly, I do not want to plagiarize anyone else's ideas. It seems more practical to offer the article and a small summation.

I spend my days teaching college students to cite, cite, cite! So, naturally, I cite! Cite! And Cite when I come on this board.

So please forgive an "old" library lady!

Ignacio, I agree with you 100% on this thread. Not on every thread. But on this thread, YOU' RE OK! My kids HAVE TO go to bed now, so I cannnot elaborate! Lo siento. I like y'all anyway!

Can anyone give me a recipe for palmeras?

You need:

- a seed
- water
- earth
- fertilizer

You put the seed into the earth, then add water and fertilizer. Add more fertilizer and water monthly. Wait for some years. :p

You mean palmas (palm trees?)

I mean the pastry!

Para Mickey, la receta de las Palmeritas

Los ingredientes son estos:

Masa de hojaldre
Azúcar
Margarina
Un huevo batido

Como veis son unos ingredientes muy fáciles de tener en casa. Una cosa, no os pongo la cantidad de azúcar ni margarina porque eso es una cosa a vuestro gusto.

Preparación:

Se pone a descongelar la masa de hojaldre (en cualquier super se encuentra estas masas, pero si sois unos manitas y os sale bien esta compleja masa, adelante ), en una hora y media ya esta lista. Se echa harina en la mesa de trabajo y se procede a trabajar la masa con un rodillo hasta estirarla bien. Se corta por la mitad, en una de las láminas se le unta margarina y se le echa encima azúcar (espolvereado por toda la superficie). Ahora cogemos la otra mitad, y le ponemos en la parte de arriba (igual q antes) el huevo batido y azúcar. Ponemos la segunda lámina encima de la primera y apretamos un poquito. Ahora empezamos a enrollar desde los extremos hacia adentro, hasta que los dos rollitos se junte ( a la vez que vamos enrollando hay q poner un poco de huevo batido en los pliegues). A continuación cortamos trozos no muy grueso (menos de 1 cm) y vamos colocando en la bandeja del horno untada previamente de margarina. Después con una brochita, bañamos las palmeritas con huevo batido y luego se le echa más azúcar encima. Metemos la bandeja en el horno y ya está. Hay que tener cuidao con el horno y la temperatura de éste, porque a veces se queman muy pronto.

Bueno espero que pongais en práctica la receta y que os guste mucho!