Cristobo/carmenm... whatever name you want to use....

Your postings have sparked some of us to react, and if that wasn't what you anticipated, you should have been less vocal in your anti-U.S. sentiments/pro Communist statements from the beginning.

I must admit I don't enjoy your posts very much either. Your positions are as practical as "Baghdad Bob's."

Wolf (Who certainly won't lose any sleep over the fact you don't like my posts. )

My my this thread has moved in a such a way like Watergate. Tsk, Tsk, Dear Carmen or what ever your name is ? But then I would expect a slight of hand. Hmm, talk about a double face!! LOL
Dear BookLady, Wolf and all, as I leave for Madrid to join our "friends" for a more personal touch of this discussion here, my only wish is that I would have like to have met the Janus face of CarmenM, for my own reasons. The janitorial staff will be low, but knowing my peers here I believe all will go well especially with the Bucket Patrol!
My next post will be from Madrid admist all that is happening. Good Luck to you all and to those I will accompany on my envoy overseas.
Ciao until Friday!!!!!!

Wow - looks like I missed a lot. How ya'll doin?

Jonsoniana: thanks for your earlier posting. It appears you are one of the few that appeal to both sides. I was shocked and dismayed to see Booklady liked your postings after my run-ins with her!!! But Booklady - since Jonsoniana identifies with me, you kinda like me too! Via 2 degrees of separation - I think you owe me a kiss!

Pucker up!

As for the topic matter at hand...wolf I owe you some rebuttal. I've been out of the loop for a few...so forgive me...

Quote: "people like (Genova) should be weeded out of insitutions of higher learning." That was disappointing. The logic you use here is "he doesn't agree, so get rid of him." I know he is radical, but get over it - what do you think he's doing - brainwashing everyone? If you're in college, you had better have the ability to see right from wrong and logical from illogical and think for yourself.

Quote: "Don't "conveniently" place this on the shoulders of the U.S. because it feeds your views." Ugh...I don't blame the U.S. for past failures because it's convenient. Our past failure is a fact, not a hypocrisy and not a matter of convenience. Furthermore, what I really *do* blame is the current U.S. administration policy failures for our current situation. Does that mean the U.S. is a terrible, awful country? Absolutely not, but we're not angels, either. Especially in this particular situation.

Cristobo,

:o Even I'm growing weary of this thread and I love discourse. I can't imagine why you don't enjoy my ideas. But chin up, not too many Americans profess these ideas either. But I believe that deep down a lot feel how successful our system is here in the U.S. However, for fashion reasons, certainty and values are repugnant and disgusting. And that's at the core of the Anti-President Bush movement.
Prior to our current President we had a leader with his finger in the air testing which way the winds blow. When I went to Europe in 1999, he was very well liked by Europeans. Understandable now. I remember telling an English couple that I wish you could keep him. But I wouldn't really wish that on you. I think you have a darn good leader, but I fear that the Socialists will win the next election. But if Spain prefers Socialism that's it's own business. I just think that the freedom and individual rights that only capitalism nuture would benefit everyone.

Well gazpacho - finally there is something we agree on. This is a great country and I don't doubt that - we have been at the forefront of so much. However, I don't agree with your Clinton comments...the fashionable thing to do these days is slam Clinton but he did a lot of great things for this country. And I hope to see Hilary as our President soon! (*duck*) I get the feeling there is so much hatred of her because she's a powerful woman.

And Bush is not a leader. He is a manipulator.

Gazpacho, remember...European socialism is not REALLY socialism.

jlramos,

Too true. Nationalist Socialism and the U.S.S.R. from 1930 until 1990 is the true manifestation of socialism. And of course, no one wants that kind of a government. But the people that support socialism sell it as a means to provide services for the less fortunate in their society, an altruistic goal. If these supporters of socialism are not willing themselves to hold a gun up to the head of those who don't support there way of thinking, they are perfectly willing to elect others who will use force to make sure everyone adheres to working for the good of the proletariat.
A little evil, is still evil.

thijs,

Whether or not a person is a radical doesn't matter as long as they teach from a neutral perspective, offering facts as the diet. When their personal agenda and beliefs are imposed as facts, they are no longer teaching, they are feeding propaganda to the students. Propaganda that they choose to offer.

You comment that people should be "wise enough" to understand the facts. Is that your belief when it comes to Fundamentalist Muslims who specifically teach young men with the intent on turning them into assassins and terrorists? They offer propaganda, and a twisted version of the Koran, knowing full well what the results will be.

You can rail against what I said, and suggest it's infringement on rights, but I still believe, like most people, that what is offered in the classroom should be free of bias. I repeat. Anyone who cannot, or will not teach from an unbiased position has no business standing in front of a class, teaching. Especially when the taxpayers are the ones who are paying their salaries, and we demand bias be removed from schools.

What puzzles me most is that so many of the people who take the stand that you've indicated are the same ones who would take a teacher to task for bringing up God in a classroom, saying it's wrong to do so. They say God must be thrown out, but personal agenda protected by "rights." Isn't there something wrong with that picture?

You suggest the present administration is to blame for the problems in Iraq, etc.... I'm afraid we can go back for decades and indict every administration for their failings. As we all know, they have been more than considerable, regardless of which party they represent. As for the planning associated with 9-11, that started long before the election that put Bush in office, so I don't think that argument is relevant.

Wasn't it Admiral Yamamoto who said, after the attack against Pearl Harbor, "I fear that we've done no more than awaken a sleeping giant."?

Regardless of who held sway in the White House, or in the legislature, I would support what's happening today. It's not an "internal political issue" in the U.S., as some would like to make us believe. As far as Hussein is concerned, we put the SOB in business, now it's time for us to close his little shop of horrors.

Hypocrisy, as defined by Merriam-Webster:

a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

It seems to fit the position established by too many left wing activists on the issue of Iraq.

Wolf

Now I'm watching on TV how the citizens of Bagdag are welcoming american troops and starting to harass every symbol of the dictatorship. Some of them say "Thanks Mr. Bush", "we are americans too" and "No Saddam".

My feelings are that europeans have lost another oportunity to be at the the head of the circumstances. France and Germany, and in my particular country, almost every social group in Spain, have acted so cowardly that I feel shame.

Hiding the head, letting terrorists and dictators do what they want, has proved bloody for us with ETA, and would prove as wrong with international business.

This war is our business, we should have been shoulder to shoulder with USA, and instead we have protest like never before.

Fernando

Gazpacho:
Well, I just don`t agree with you, let`s say you point north and I point south, or viceversa. But I do respect your views, and I understand them.
There are many conservative American thinkers that I like. Have you ever checked http://www.fredoneverything.net ? I love that man, though I often don`t agree him. I think you will like some of his columns.
I think here in Europe we have grown maybe too "soft". I think American conservatives are right when they say we are feeble and have lost our convictions. Good is good, and wrong is still wrong, I guess, which is hard to remember when you hear some "ultra-progressive" speeches here, about topics like "let`s give rapists a chance" or "child abuse is just one more sexual option". And I positively HATE minorities whining speeches.
I can`t talk about Mr.Clinton`s internal politics, but I think his foreign policy was more or less the same than that of Bush. I can`t find any major difference. The key point is, he managed to make military interventions seem more "acceptable" for European progressives.
Ne`er mind about Spanish "socialism". Socialism died some sixty years ago.
And yes, here in Asturias we had quite enough red revolution and war to be fed up for the next 1000 years. It is one part of our history that no one talks about. No memorials, no speeches, no "1934 revolution day"; nothing. All my life I heard my elders say "Son, you and your generation, never start another one".
Fernando
If the Irakis had won the war, today you would be seeing crowds of happy citizens greeting their leader: that`s how human nature works.
Did you see TV yesterday? The Americans didn`t know European journalists were staying at "Palestine" hotel. What a surprise, uh? One more mistake in a long row of mistakes...It is funny they killed in the same day one Al-Jazeera journalist. What a coincidence...