Really, very FUNNY stuff!!
http://www.idleworm.com/nws/2002/11/iraq2.shtml

Carmenm,
Your arguments, such as they are, are fallacious, they beg the question. I'd laugh, if the subject was not so tragic.

Carmenm writes:
You just repeat the marxist party line, it sounds just like Fidel Castro's line. He blames everything on the U.S. including his impotence in managing his incompetence!

Do some research and get some new, convincing arguments and perhaps we can discuss issues in a rational manner. Otherwise, you will become an anachronism, just like Fidel, and that is a shame for someone as young as yourself.

Have a nice day, and may God bless you, even if you do not believe in Him!

Carmen

Booklady, I am afraid I don`t fit in your stereotypes. I am not any old-style leftist. I would define myself as a conservative, if something. I believe in hard work and responsability, and I hate the whinining about vitctimhood that leftists seem to adore. I can`t understand why, if the Nazi party is (understanbly) forbidden, Communism is not banned for as good reasons. I am happy reds eventually lost the cold war.
In my posts, especially the last one, I have not expressed hardly any opinion, but rather well established historical facts. It is a fact that all the political powers along history have tried to enhance their influence through any available mean, mostly war. It has always been that way. It is a fact that the US are the greatest power today, and they have their own geoestrategical and economical interests. Those interests prompt the White House to war once and again. And then there is propaganda, just like in any other previous war, since the Pharaoh first boasted how he had defeated the dwellers of Kush. But this time propaganda was just too coarse, and the farce has became increasingly more and more gruesome every day.
I don`t know anyone in my close environment, or in Spanish media, who believes at all the reasons that Bush and Co provide to justify the invasion. Nobody believes their tale here, but Asnar. This war follows once more an old script which was written long ago, when the Maine blasted: The American government invents or creates some phony incident to justify war, they deceive their people, and the bombings start. It is old and smells rotten, and nobody on this shore seems eager to believe it...except those that are paid to believe, like Asnar.
I don`t purchase any “paradise of workers”. I want just what anyone else: peace, safety, welfare, and a clean environment that I can let to my descendants. And I sincerely believe America has earned the right to lead the world to a higher stage of peace and universal welfare. I think it would be possible; but never through this way.
With all my respect

Here's an interesting article written by Joe Galloway, who authored the book, "We were soldiers." You don't have to accept what he says, but you might want to read what he says, and at least try to understand why many Americans feel the way they do.

Subject: View of the World: Ramblings of an Old Man

By Joe Galloway

If you aren't interested in the ramblings of an old man, please delete now. If you're
still there, pull up a chair and listen.

Is there anyone else out there who's sick and tired of all the polls being taken in
foreign countries as to whether or not they" like" us? The last time I looked, the word
"like" had nothing to do with foreign policy. I prefer 'respect' or 'fear.' They worked
for Rome, which civilized and kept the peace in the known world a hell of a lot longer
than our puny two centuries-plus.

I see a left-wing German got elected to office recently by campaigning against the foreign
policy of the United States. Yeah, that's what I want, to be lectured about war and being
a "good neighbor" by a German.

Their head honcho said they wouldn't take part in a war against Iraq. Kind of nice to see
them taking a pass on a war once in while. Perhaps we needed to have the word "World" in
front of War. I think it's time to bring our boys home from Germany. Outside of the
money we'd save, we'd make the Germans "like" us a lot more, after they started paying the
bills for their own defense.

Last time I checked, France isn't too fond of us either. They sort of liked us back on
June 6th, 1944, though, didn't they? If you don't think so, see how nicely they take care
of the enormous American cemeteries up above the Normandy beaches. For those of you
who've studied history, we also have a few cemeteries in places like Belleau Woods and
Chateau Thierry also.

For those of you who haven't studied it, that was from World War One the first time Europe
screwed up, and we bailed out the French. That's where the US Marines got the title
'Devil Dogs' or, if you still care about what the Germans think, Teufelhunde." I hope I
spelled that right; sure wouldn't want to offend anyone, least of all a German.

Come to think of it, when Europe couldn't take care of their Bosnian problem recently,
guess who had to help out there also. Last time I checked, our kids are still there. I
sort of remember they said they would be out in a year. Gee, how time flies when you're
having fun.

Now we hear that the South Koreans aren't too happy with us either. They "liked" us a lot
better, of course, in June 1950. It took more than 50,000 Americans killed in Korea to
help give them the lifestyle they currently enjoy, but then who's counting? I think it's
also time to bring the boys home from there. There are about 37,000 young Americans on
the DMZ separating the South Koreans from their "brothers" up north. Maybe if we leave,
they can begin to participate in the "good life" that North Korea currently enjoys. Uh
huh. Sure.

I also understand that a good portion of the Arab/Moslem world now doesn't "like" us
either. Did anyone ever sit down and determine what we would have to do to get them to
like us? Ask them what they would like us to do. Die? Commit ritual suicide? Bend over?
Maybe we should follow the advice of our dimwitted, dullest knife in the drawer, Senator
Patty Murray, and build more roads, hospitals, day care centers, and orphanages like Osama
bin Laden does. What with all the orphans Osama has created, the least he can do is build
some places to put them. Senator Stupid says if we would only "emulate" Osama, the Arab
world would love us.

Sorry Patty, in addition to the fact that we already do all of those things around the
world and have been doing them for over sixty years, I don't take public transportation,
and I certainly wouldn't take it with a bomb strapped to the guy next to me. Don't get
me wrong: I'm not in favor of going to war. Been there, done that. Several times, in
fact. But I think we ought to have some polls in this country about other countries, and
see if we "like" THEM. Problem is, if you listed the countries, not only wouldn't the
average American know if he liked them or not, he wouldn't be able to find them. If we're
supposed to worry about them, how about them worrying about us?

We were nice to the North Koreans in 1994, as we followed the policies of Neville Clinton.
And it seemed to work; they didn't restart nuclear weapons program for a whole year or so.
In the meantime, we fed them when they were starving, and put oil in their stoves when
they were freezing.

In a recent visit to Norway, I engaged in a really fun debate with my cousin's son, a
student at a Norwegian University. I was lectured to by this thankless squirt about the
American "Empire," and scolded about dropping the atomic bomb on the Japanese. I reminded
him that empires usually keep the stuff they take; we don't, and back in 1945 most
Norwegians thought dropping ANY kind of bomb on Germany or Japan was a good idea. I also
reminded him that my uncle, his grandfather, and others in our family spent a significant
time in Sachsenhausen concentration camp, courtesy of the Germans, and they didn't all
survive. I further reminded him that if it weren't for the "American Empire" he would
probably be speaking German or Russian.

Sorry about the rambling, but I just took an unofficial poll here at our house, and we don't seem to like anyone.
-------------------

Wolf

Thanks, Wolf, for sharing Galloway's article. It is excellent and he echoes what most of us feel. It reminds me of an e-mail I recently received from a friend that said, "you can always count on the French to be there when they need us."

Kudos to you Wolf and thank you for taking the time to type all of your well-reasoned responses out. Perhaps some of the ungrateful participants in this thread will learn something but I doubt it will happen.

Wolf, another person thanking you for your calm, thoughtful responses. As an American who has lived abroad several times, it is always interesting how quickly people are willing to only "remember" the errors committed by the USA (we are human after all) but forget any decent acts of ours.

Living in Switzerland in 1992-93 I was amazed how often people would lecture me on American imperialism and then in the same conversation ask why we hadn't done anything to solve the Balken issue. The strongest kid in the playground is never "liked" and I'll settle for respect

You want an article? Read the following from Edward Said (I LIKE this man):
" We cannot in any way lend our silence to a policy of war that the White House has openly announced will include three to five hundred cruise missiles a day (800 of them during the first 48 hours of the war) raining down on the civilian population of Baghdad in order to produce "Shock and Awe", or even a human cataclysm that will produce, as its boastful planner a certain Mr (or is it Dr?) Harlan Ullman has said, a Hiroshima-style effect on the Iraqi people. Note that during the 1991 Gulf War after 41 days of bombing Iraq this scale of human devastation was not even approached. And the US has 6000 "smart" missiles ready to do the job." You can read the whole of it at http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/625/op2.htm
Sort of surprising, uh? Those filthy wogs can do something better than just blasting themselves with dynamite.

Wolf:
I hope you don`t agree with ALL the article that you enclosed. It is xenophobic and blatantly racist at times. I guess I can accept that a descendant of a death camp inmate may hate Germans as a whole, but I will never agree with him on such a thing. I know there were many people, in the US and the UK, who claimed to sterilize or simply slay "all the damned German race" in the aftermath of the war. But I didn`t think you would come to agree on such a thing.
And I still think Germany has NOT the worst record on starting wars, in Europe.
I am afraid I missed the post where I said that Europe can teach anything to the US about peace, or world order, or anything. We had our chance, when most of the world was ruled by Russia, the British Empire and France. All that is over, after the two World Wars. And we can`t blame anyone but our own stupidity. After the Yugoslavia crisis, it is obvious the we remain as stupid as ever; we didn`t know what to do, except fueling the conflict so that Germany and others could sell weapons to the parts involved. Then the marines came, they ended the war...and now Albania is some sort of American protectorate, and the US have a new bridge point, or bridge head, or whatever, in our house. Just like in WWII.
I mean, I can`t blame the US for doing what they do. Of course, they ARE an empire, and they don`t sort of "help" people in danger, like knights wearing an armor. They fight their wars to get profit, that is all. Just as Spain, or France, or anyone, would do if they were in the same situation. Spain tested chemical weapons in Moroccan locals, in the early 20th century. And France developed two of the worst genocides in history, in Indochina and Algeria, along 19th and 20th centuries. Our rulers are not better than yours. So what?
It is true also that empires eventually are trying to bring peace and stability to their subjects. The Roman Empire, and the Spanish one, were peaceful, long lasting structures...which opressed millions of people through militar force during many centuries.
What I am asking the US to do, is trying to break the trend. I agree that Massive Destruction weapons are a threat. Then stop researching, designing, manufacturing, exporting and/or using them!!! Make a world conference against this kind of weapons, or just weapons as a whole, and force all those dictators, Saddam or Musharraf or the others, to sign it along with you!!
Europe is a failure, we have let nothing to the world, neither peace nor stability; only art, literature and science. So it is America`s turn to improve our record. You can do it better than that! Get along with it! Firs step, kick out of the White house the current bunch of far-rightists

Carmen Europe is not a failure it is arguably the most influencel continent lets face it the master race is the master race it is obviously the most powerfull hence British Empire,Spanish Empire etc. In addition most people want to move to white majority such as the US you never hear of mass imagration to Africa or say Asia because those areas are "dumps where no one wants to live" in other words Europe is not a failure also Europe in addition to art,science and what ever else you posted Europe contributed democrazy which is definetly a big and the Catholic religion. These are two VERY big things.

carmenm,

Edward Said is a Palestinian, who lives in the U.S. Now, guess which culture he will represent? It's not difficult to guess.

You still can't get past the biased points of view and show connections to people who are divorced from the specific topic. Please! Give us links to sources that aren't extremists. For every left-wing zealot I can add a right-wing zealot, but we aren't getting anywhere doing that. We're getting nothing but "hatred" hidden behind glossy words that sometimes cover the facts that the person isn't really a good source of info.

Here's one for you, since Said is always attacking the U.S. "Zionists." How long would a Jewish writer living in Palestine survive, if he wrote flaming articles against the Palestinians? Said is alive and well, a professor at Columbia University. Can you picture a Jew in a Muslim University? Interesting.......

By the way... I have read just about everything Said has put out that's fit for consumption. Some of his points have merit, but everything is lopsided from a point of view.

Thank you!

Wolf