Hi there,

I am attempting to obtain my Spanish nationality this year. And the first step is proving the chain of the family to me, so that I can request my 1 year residency visa.

I have my birth certificate, I have my mother's and now I need to see about finding and obtaining a copy of my grandfather's (he was born in Spain; my mother and I in the US). I do know where he was born and his birthdate.

Does anyone have any experience in how to go about this? I am currently in a graduate program for which I am living/researching in Europe (Paris for 4 more days and then Florence Italy- before moving to Spain in July to begin my residency). I will be requesting my residency visa sometime in May or June, so I would like to get the certificate before then.

Anyone with any experience in doing this sharing their information or details is highly appreciated!

Many thanks in advance,
Kayla

You can request your grandpa's birth certificate online, if the Civil Registry Book where he was registered has been computerized. The URL is Registro Civil

In case it hasn't been yet, in the same link there's an alphabetic list of all Registries in Spain with their phone numbers. In case you don't find his birthplace in the list, post its name and I can try to help to find the appropriate Registry.

HI there,

I am looking around in that site right now but not seeing anything. My brain is a bit shot so I could be missing it, just in case though here is the information on it:
He was born in March of 1903 and my mother has it listed as Matienzo, Santander.

Thank you so much for your help!!! That would be phenomenal should I be able to find it online and/or request it online.

Cheers!

Matienzo is a small village (pop. 374) that belongs to the Muncipality of Ruesga Website of the Municipality of Ruesga For its location, I guess that its Partido Judicial (one of the Administrative Divisions of Spain, the relevant one for the Registro Civil) should be either Santander or Laredo. Try both just in case. If you have difficulties with the text in the form, ask and I'll try to translate.

You are on top of it, and wow I never knew it was that tiny. Look at all I am learning.

As for the form I have been able to figure out what the basics are that they are requesting, but I am undertain as to which type of certificate to apply for. More importantly however is what about the DNI it wont let me apply with out that. And I dont know what it is or have one.

I have managed to find it on line under Calabria for Santander. Since that is listed as his county and I didnt see anything for Loredo.

Thanks again!!

Just one more thing: I've digged in the Justice Ministry Website (the ministry responsible for this paperwork) and the Partido Judicial corresponding to Ruesga is, definitely, Laredo, so forget about Santander and concentrate in Laredo. Even, in the Website there is the mail address of this office and their phone numbers. It can help in case of the online procedure doesn't work. This is the URL where one can find these data for any village in Spain: Search for Partido Judicial

Hi stinkerbell! Please keep us posted on how things go. I also am considering obtaining Spanish nationality. In part, I need to wait for my dad to get his Spanish citizenship back (he's an immigrant to the US, both countries are now more lax about dual citizenship than when he naturalized). His "quest" is being slowed down due to (a) his being born in a small town (b) many of the town's records were lost during the civil war. Have you found any websites particularly helpful when considering dual citizenship?

Good Luck!

Does anyone know how to apply with out a DNI for this??

As far as I can tell you dont get a DNI until you are a citizen, ironically I need this form to get me the birth certificate, which theoretically entitles me to the visa which will help me to become a citizen with a DNI

Vicki- feel free to keep in touch on it, I will make sure to let people know. I am hopeful that the records will have survived the civil war, he was from a REALLY tiny village though. Oh and enjoy Seattle as much as you can, its my US "home" and I miss my Ave and Nasai

Torrales-
Thank you SOOOO much for all your help too!!! I have hope that I will get my citizenship one day I really do and I cant thank you enough.

Sangria for you!

hi!

There's another way to try finding a birth certificate. As you say, your grandfather was born in a very small village in 1903. At that time, birth/ baptism registers were kept in the local churchs.

Try contacting the Matienzo church and they could give the information about the steps you have to take to get the birth certificate.

Thanks I had been told that might be a possibility alos. I will see if I can find it through the registry and if not next try the churches. The family is catholic so I can hope

I just hope I can do it with out having to actually go. as I will be in italy and researching with out much time for side trips before I want to actually move to Spain in July.

You're welcome!

As I told you before, I wouldn't worry about the DNI. The clerk who will process your request will see that you intend to get the Spanish citizenship and that your mail address is abroad, so it's easy to understand that you don't have any DNI yet.

About the church way, it can be an alternate, but just in case the Civil Registry Book has been lost. Moreover, many Baptism Registration Books were lost during the Civil War, too, so try the Church only if you receive a No from the civil authorities.

If you have all the data I mentioned (full names of your grand-grandparents, and the precise date of your grandpa's birth) shouldn't be too difficult.

Ok I will have to file by paper instead of the internet then, as the internet form wont process with out a DNI! Hopefully they wont take too long to process it.

If any one has any experience in how long these people have taken I would love to hear about it.

I think I have enough information that they should be able to find it, I hope!

And thank you again Torrales

You're welcome again. I didn't know the form rejects to be submitted unless you fill the DNI field. If you want to try using a fake one, it's an up-to-8-digit number. I'm not trying to induce you to cheat, just suggesting that you can put a clearly fake one like 11111111 and maybe your request is processed. You lose nothing if you try.

I wish you all the luck in your search. I will be out of the board for at least some time due to some behaviours I have seen here. I am not referring to you, of course, but honestly I don't feel like helping certain people who come here to bash my country, talking about cowardice, and being so arrogant to tell others how they must run their homes. As I have no spare time to make a black list and a white list, and don't feel like arguing, I prefer to say goodbye and wait some time until things calm down. I have my own opinions on many things, but I'd never say anyone how they have to live their lives either as individuals or as community (call it country, if you want).

Best regards.

Stinkerbell- I just asked my dad how he got around the DNI...He was lucky -> had an aunt of his get the birth cert. However, he had a suggestion similar to Torrales - try putting in your US passport number instead of the DNI.

Torrales - Please don't go! However, I understand the feeling. I won't go into the "Politics" area, well I at least try to avoid it, for similar reasons. I find it is really pointless to try to hold discussions about politics on the internet, the discussion eventually becomes circular with people not really listening to each other and, often, one side dominating the discussion. All I end up with is a headache.

Thank you so much Torrales again.

I am going to try a fake number, and a US passport number (this is Spain that isnt cheating it has to be more than that if that doesnt work I will see about finding an address to mail the request to. I sure hope it wont take my entire life. If not I might have my cousin try she has a DNI.

It seems some things have gone on in my week trip to get to and settled in Italy for my research. I am with Vicki on not going. You have been so helpful and really I feel horrible that a few nasty people would be able to ruin it for others. I hope that you will reconsider, and not let them win. Otherwise at least try to check private messages

I'm looking for the format for the DNI so I can mask the numbers correctly in a software program.

Is this format:

999-99-9999

???
Many thanks,
Donna

Stinkerbell,
You will have to go in person to ask for the birthcert. Faking the DNI number won´t work, as it also goes attached to you residence info etc. they won´t mail it just anywhere.

FYI, the DNI is to spaniards what the social security number is to americans. So you can understand all that it means.

I had to go at one point and ask for my parents marriage certificate, and mothers birth certificate. They only allow next of kin, so for your grandfather, its most likely your mom would have to request it, although it is possible they allow you to do it also. You have to prove however, how you´re related to him. For this, you have to prove how your mom is related to him. If he had put her in his Libro de Familia, it will be simple. And with your birth certificate, your mom´s name is on it so that´s simple enough, although you´ll have to have to have it translated and with the apostille of the hague seal on it. The seal you can request through your state, when you ask them for your birth cert. it costs something like 10 dollars. How long for you I don´t know, as I was born abroad and all my paperwork goes through Washington DC.

Your year of residency, I believe we discussed it quite some time ago, (sorry everyone, I´ve been absent, I´m now in spain and have been readjusting!) it has to be legal, and staying a year as a student doesn´t count.

This topic is my specialty, as I´ve gone through all the hoops and loops and was finally granted everything last year. It takes time, no quick fixes here people, but its doable!

Hi Espe3-
Thanks for the information. Could you explain your comment about the year of residency? Or maybe a hint for a good search term for the previous discussion?

Thanks!

Hi Viki,
WIth the new changes in the civil code, one can apply for spanish nationality under different conditions according to your level of spanish descent. If one of your parents is spanish (born in spain) than things are much easier. You apply, and wait, and there´s really nothing more to do. There is no age limit as to when you can apply for nationality. (I am oversimplifying, as getting all the paperwork necessary can be a pain in the rear end!)

If your grandparents are your closeset connection, then it pretty much goes back to the way things were before the civil code changed. What this means is among other requirements, you have to have a year of residency, LLEGALLY in spain. This can only be done, one of 3 ways: a job sponsors you in Spain, you´re independently wealthy and can live here to sustain yourself without any help (there is a requirement of $75,000 for this) OR you´re married to a spaniard and after a year you can apply for citizenship.

This has turned out to be a VERY useful thread! Someone just sent me an email asking me how they could find their Spanish grandfather's birth certificate and I directed them to this informative thread. Thanks, everyone!

Saludos, MadridMan

OK I havent looked back at this for a while as I have been caught up with a graduate school dissertation. I am actually still caught up but I promised myself I wouldnt give up until I at least had the damn birth certificate

Yes Espe we did talk about this a while ago, I am still on the quest and going in Bureacratic circles.

As for my grandfather, he is lucky I am on this side of the ocean otherwise love him as I may Id be digging him up from his grave to play golf with his skull. First of all he threw all spanish documents in the water once he cleared through Ellis Island, He said he was never going back- he didnt, but I want to!!! So there is NOTHING there. Second as he never wanted to go back to Spain and only would allow two of his children to actually go back at any point so he never registered my mother's generation (though on his behalf as my mother was born out of Spain, and per Franco's regulations of the time I dont believe he was able to).

As for going in person, I cant believe that will be the only way, I mean there are people who do geneology research for a living and they can get the info without being kin and without going there (they are my next resort in the search to retain a semblance of sanity). If need be I will but I have a trip lined up and a contact in two embassies and a consulado to go through first.

As for proof of family, I am in possession of my original birth certificate and a copy of my mothers, and can request an original if need be. That should prove the family line, though I think they misspelt my grandmothers name - she was at a hospital and didnt speak English and they sure as heck didnt know how to write things in Spanish

My real dream is that I can piggy back off my mother. I am trying to get things rolling on her application as that is the easier one and should be granted much more quickly, theoretically immediately. Then the dream is once she has her's I can apply as a child of a Spaniard and hopefully also have a speedy process.

I am sure that wont happen, it would be too easy. As for that whole visa issue I am still being given contradictory information and it is driving me insane. You dont create a law that says I have to live in Spain for a year for residency with the intention of becoming a citiwen, and tehn tell me I have to have a job before I can get the Visa. Do you not know what female employment rates in Spain are like?? I do I research them GRRRRR....

Anyways, I think I may be sending you a private message and see if I can glean anything else from you and thank you to everyone!

Is it possible for a US citizen (non-Spanish) to get dual citizenship in the US and Spain? I have heard different views on this, and would like to know. Personally I would love to get a dual citizenship. My wife is Ecuatorian, and is just waiting for the residency period until she can get her dual citizenship (she got her Spanish Residency last year).

Martin de Madrid:
For the official US position on Dual Nationality, please read the State Department's website at:
http://travel.state.gov/law/loss.html

Martin de Madrid:

I am not intending to relinquish my US citizenship, and not doing anything that insinuates that. And nothing I have found to date states that I am required to.

My understanding of this is such that with this new law, the basic position of both governments is that neither one will recognize the other, but that I will have both.

I have a fair amount of friends who hold dual citizenship (some from birth, some obtainted as adults) and none have been required to relinquish or been stripped of any citizenship.

One other thing Martin- how did she get her period of residency and what is required of her for that period of residency.

It would be interesting to know.

Dear Stinkerbell, sorry I haven´t been on the board for awhile. I´ve been studying for the Spanish Driver´s Test and was totally obsessed with it! Now that I´ve got the written ('difficult') part out of the way, I can have a life again!

Skip the Visa crap if you can. It will only drive you crazy. As for your grandfathers papers... I still think the best option is for you to go to his town in person. But yes, try to piggy back off your mother´s potential, it most likely will be the most direct way... however although your grandfathers name is on her birth cert, ´she still needs to prove he was spanish. If he went through ellis island, he should have some documentation from there, which should work with the Spanish consulate. Its worth a try!

The new law (the spanish side of it) was modified so it does not require you do renounce your Am. citizenship. But remember the US will not recognize your Spanish citizenship and for trips in and out of America you need to use your American passport! (Am rules- so its not like you´re trying to trick anyone!)

HI Espe3- No problem, I understand as I am currently under the weight of drafting a dissertation by the end of the month. I have been thinking about this and doing little bits here and there for a year and a half already!

I am sure Ellis Island has something of my Grandfather, but I havent been able to find it. They werent always good about spelling names and it is also dependent on the people entering the data reading it and understanding it too.

SO I am going to stay on the quest for the birthcertificate, as I think that will make it easier to process quickly. I also have a friend who just started working for the DC consulado and I am hoping she can help. I am stuck with a consulado fiasco as I am "resident" to one I dont live near and who are so unhelpful and unresponsive that it is mildly entertaining (once I get past the homicidal tendancies), registered to a university in another jurisdiction that I dont live near, and I have a residential address at one/two that is out of the states all together.

Nope I cqnt ever do anything the non-complicated way. That well that would be no fun I have even heard this wonderful story about someone getting it processed in 8 weeks time (for my mother's citizenship. If I could turn both of these around in 16 weeks I would shriek with joy!!!

As for the US citizenship- it was my understanding that that was one of the two main innovations of the legislation. One to let US people into the group instead of just Latin Americans and second to remove the restriction on the dual bit and play the "let's ignore each other" game.

As for the states switcheroo, trust me I know all about the switching passports deal. I just have to get me the passport first

Dear Stinkerbell,
Sounds like my not so long ago...
Its frustrating, but you´ll get through it. If/when you come to madrid, let me know and we´ll get together and chat in person about all this mess!
In the meantime, homicidal inclinations are tempting, but the too will pass. Depends on the consulate you have to deal with how long they´ll take. I was one of the first to hand in all my paperwork when the law went into effect in january and in april I started calling to get them going. By that time they had over 500 applications and STILL hadn´t done anything. I insisted enough though, and by june had everything! ( and a trip in person for the passport, lucky me because I came from so far (5 hour road trip) they processed it in a day!!!!!!!) Thank God for small favors!