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#64097 - 02/07/04 04:34 AM Re: interesting article
virmonsal Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 11
Loc: Southwest USA
Cid, I understand you to say that it's all about biology and genetics. I don't disagree with you but I still have to wonder if that doesn't make culture irrelevant vis a vis the labels we attach to ourselves. I guess it's just difficult to let go of the notion that culture is important in identity and self-labelling.

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#64098 - 02/08/04 02:34 PM Re: interesting article
Tex-Mex Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 7
Loc: USA
Ok, here is my side on this issue.
First of all "LATINO" derives from LATIN a group of peoples from Italy around the time of the Roman Empire. Latin is also the official language of the Romans. From the Latin language the following languages are created; Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and French. Technically to be called "Latino" is really including not only the original peoples of Italy who spoke this language but also the French, Italians and Portuguese besides the Spanish speaking world. However, Latino has been translated to refer to people mainly of Central & S. America who live in those countries and here in the US. The state of California has really made the term "Latino" a political term. Hollywood has also refered to people of Mexican, Puerto Rican, and Cuban descent as well as other groups by "LATINO." So Latino to me sounds very inappropriate.
On the other hand "HISPANIC" does specifically refer to Spain. It begins by Hispaniola refering to present day Haiti & Dominican Republic. Later la "Nueva ESPANA" or Hispaniola which was Mexico and the Southwest US. However, being "HISPANIC" does not necessarily mean having ties to Spain. It really refers to having the common denominator of speaking Spanish or that one of your ancestors spoke or came/lived from a country from which Spain had colonized. This includes the Southwest US, Florida to Mexico through the Caribbean to Argentina & the Philippines. Whether you are pure Spanish, Indian of the Americas, African, Philippine or Northern European or a combination of one to another and/or any of the above even if it is 1/32 you are technically or you have the right to be called "HISPANIC." For example a couple who moved to Argentina from Italy back in the 40's who's children were born in Argentina later moved to the US, they can be refered by Hispnanic. In the case of Brazil, I believe "Latino" would probably be more appropriate. However, since they are surrounded by countries of the spanish speaking world they can also be called "HISPANIC."

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#64099 - 02/09/04 12:59 PM Re: interesting article
El Cid d'España Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally posted by Miche
mistaking a cat for a dog? Well, it's always interesting to see other people's opinions, but it's terms, or tones, like "a cat for a dog" that only show ignorance. We are not talking about cats or dogs and the animal species we are talking about people. People, one species, the human species. And I think people should feel they can refer to themselves as they please.
I was making an anology you mindless dolt.

EDIT: And another thing 'Miche', if you're going to cry R-A-C-I-S-M every single annoying time someone doesn't share your opinion, don't make it such a crying game. rolleyes It kills the seriousness of the subject. wink

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#64100 - 02/10/04 12:16 AM Re: interesting article
miche_dup1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 181
Well, that was a 'mindless' analogy since dogs and cats cannot mate with each other.

Search for another analogy because your "analogy",
Quote:
I find it culturally damaging to call full-blooded Amerindians in Latin America Hispanic. It's not who they are. It's like confusing a cat for a dog and still the animal will always be a cat.
is suggesting an Amerindian is of another species apart from human species. That is what your analogy says.

Genetically,yesss, we are all different, of course, and thank goodness. rolleyes .

I'll agree that you are annoying.
~~~~~~~~
For the record, I don't personally feel I can call myself Hispanic, (half South American), because the other half is Asian, plus I am a Brit, my husband is Italian and God help our kids when someone asks, 'and what are your origins'? laugh

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#64101 - 02/10/04 01:08 PM Re: interesting article
El Cid d'España Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 111
Yes, I can be annoying sometimes. :p

As for the thing about cats and dogs, it was the first thing that came to my mind. Would you have rather I said: "It's like confusing black for white"? No, I used Cats and Dogs. Most people relate to cats and dogs at any rate.

To dig in further, dogs and cats if you go back to evolution came from a common meat-eating ancestor. So in theory they are the same to some extent. And plus it was you who made the comment about species in the first place. :o

As for Amerindians, they are an offshoot of the Mongoloid branch of humans who crossed over the Bering Strait (when it wasn't covered by water)...give or take 40,000 years of genetic isolation from the rest of the world. confused

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#64102 - 02/10/04 05:39 PM Re: interesting article
Booklady Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 1664
Loc: U.S.A.
laugh
_________________________
The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.
--St. Augustine (354-430)

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#64103 - 02/10/04 07:41 PM Re: interesting article
miche_dup1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 181
"Ixo ye un can, no un mixín."

Ok, i can't stand it any longer. What does it mean? What language is it?

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#64104 - 02/10/04 08:19 PM Re: interesting article
miche_dup1 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 181
I know the references made to the mongolians, but "Mongoloid" I had to look up, first in my dictionary and it didn't look good besides being ambiguous, so here is the BArtleby.com reference which clarify it's usage and, in my opinion, needs a little care.

"Mongoloid is now considered outdated and potentially offensive."

Bartleby.com -Mongoloids
§ 46. Mongoloid
In its anthropological sense, Mongoloid refers to the group of peoples indigenous to central and eastern Asia, some of whom in all probability crossed to the Western Hemisphere and populated North and South America. Like the other terms proposed by anthropologists in the 18th and 19th centuries as human racial classifications, Mongoloid is now considered outdated and potentially offensive. In particular, you should take care not to confuse Mongoloid with Mongolian, which is occasionally used in the anthropological sense but which primarily refers to the central Asian region of Mongolia or to its peoples. 1
The use of Mongoloid or Mongolism—capitalized or not—in a medical sense is now clearly offensive. The preferred term for the congenital disorder is now Down syndrome or, somewhat less acceptably, Down’s syndrome.



Reference > Usage > American Heritage® Book of English Usage > 6. Names and Labels > § 57. race



The American Heritage® Book of English Usage.
A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996.


"There are no pure races in any meaningful sense, only large geographical groupings whose genetic histories can never be fully known."


§ 57. race
In its anthropological sense, a race is a group of humans distinguished from other similar groups by genetically inherited characteristics. Though the perception of distinctive physical differences between peoples is undoubtedly as old as the history of human migration, the search for a scientific basis for race is a more recent undertaking. The earliest efforts of physical anthropologists involved elaborate descriptions of such characteristics as skin color, hair color and texture, body proportions, and skull measurements. Modern studies tend to ignore these superficial features in favor of more precisely measurable criteria, especially the analysis of blood types and of metabolic processes. 1
The attempt to classify humans into discrete racial groups is greatly complicated by the fact that human populations have been migrating and intermingling for hundreds of centuries. There are no pure races in any meaningful sense, only large geographical groupings whose genetic histories can never be fully known. The traditional names for these groupings—Negroid, Mongoloid, Caucasoid (or Caucasian), and in some systems Australoid—are now controversial in both technical and nontechnical contexts and are likely to give offense no matter how they are used. Caucasian does retain a certain currency in American English, but it is used almost exclusively—and erroneously—to mean “white” or “European” rather than “belonging to the Caucasoid racial group,” a group that includes a variety of peoples generally considered to be nonwhite. This ambiguity, along with the growing aversion among many people to the racial terminology of earlier anthropologists, suggests that Caucasian may soon go the way of the -oid words and disappear even from local police blotters. 2
Of course, the existence of racial differences between peoples remains an obvious, if scientifically indefinite, fact with important social implications. But the terminology of race has shifted in recent years from anthropological classifications toward a more flexible language of geography, culture, and color. 3
More at Australoid, Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negroid. 4

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#64105 - 02/11/04 12:52 PM Re: interesting article
El Cid d'España Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 111
Quote:
"Ixo ye un can, no un mixín."

Ok, i can't stand it any longer. What does it mean? What language is it?
It's Aragonese for: "It's a dog, not a cat." :p

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#64106 - 02/11/04 01:06 PM Re: interesting article
El Cid d'España Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 111
Quote:
"There are no pure races in any meaningful sense, only large geographical groupings whose genetic histories can never be fully known."
That's very true. Even amongst Europeans, there are many differences ranging from Nordic, Alpine, Dinaric, Mediterranean, and East Baltic, and even mixtures of those sub-types, anthropologically-speaking that is.

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