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#63589 - 06/24/03 04:12 PM Re: ETA kills again
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Madrid, Spain
The problem is not being different from the rest (the majority), the problem is not respecting the majority's decisions and ideology and trying to impose a minority's ideology over the majority.

"It is always better to change yourself than to try to try to change the world's order" (René Descartes)

Fernando

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#63590 - 06/24/03 05:23 PM Re: ETA kills again
Anonymous
Unregistered


True! Right, Fernando!

If people did as you say, lots of wars could have had been avoided, including the US independence one. After all, the English in the motherland were much more! All they had to do is submit and respect the majority's desire to fry them with unbearable taxes... rolleyes

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#63591 - 06/24/03 05:42 PM Re: ETA kills again
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Spain is not occupying the Basque Country, and to say the opposite is just a fantasy.

Fernando

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#63592 - 06/24/03 06:06 PM Re: ETA kills again
Anonymous
Unregistered


England wasn't either, it was part of their land by then.

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#63593 - 06/24/03 06:58 PM Re: ETA kills again
Cristobo Carrín Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 136
Loc: Asturias
Mmmm...what do you mean by "respect", exactly? In other words, who is trying to impose anything?
I just think my people are following a wrong path, and I do my best to change their minds. I am a member of a political party and support any major campaign against cultural imperialism, shortages of liberties and political corruption.
Should I just shut up because my minoritarian ideas might disturb the innocence and confidence of the majority on their being right?
Well, I will not. I will try to "impose" my ideas on the rest. Bad news for Federico Jimenez-Losantos...

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#63594 - 06/24/03 09:53 PM Re: ETA kills again
Shawn Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/28/00
Posts: 313
Loc: mentally - Spain, Physically -...
Cristobo Carrín,

Quote:
By the way, Llion and Castile were two separate entities until someone had the great idea to unite them in 1978
Let me remind you that Fernando III (El Santo) in 1230 united Castilla y León. That is nearly 800 years of unity, this unity was only broken briefy by Franco. Unless you wish to return to the politics of Franco, then you cannot deny the strong historical unity of Castilla and León.

Fortunately, nearly the same number of people who believe that the earth is flat, about 1%, vote for the TC candidates. You can also notice that the vote total for the nationalist in Castilla has shrunk over the last few years

Castilla y León 2003

Do not be ashamed to be Spanish!
Pelayo began the liberation of Spain from those beautiful green mountains of Asturias. Spaniards of Asturian ancestry have always played important roles in Spanish history. You can be proud of your regional traditions and of your Spanish nacionality.

España es un crisol de pueblos.

¡Viva la diversidad y la unidad!
¡Viva España!

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#63595 - 06/24/03 10:54 PM Re: ETA kills again
Cristobo Carrín Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 136
Loc: Asturias
Shawn
Fernando the 3rd (indeed all his sucessors including Juan Carlos I) was named "King of Castile AND Leon". Both kingdoms maintained much of their own political structure untouched, including separate currency (or so I think, the "escudos leoneses" existed for a long, didn`t they?). Franco just restored a separation that had never totally disappeared, despite the attempt to transform all the kingdoms into "provincias" in 1834, according to the French model. This attempt obviously FAILED
As for me, I don`t feel proud of being Spanish because I don`t even FEEL Spanish. I don`t care what my stupid identity card says. Pelayo founded an independent Asturian kingdom, while central and Southern Hispania started a new era under moslem control. That`s neither good nor bad. I am not one of those fools who boast because Moors didn`t manage to conquer us. All I say it is simply that we, people from the Iberian peninsula, don`t share a common history, nor a common cultural heritage. By the time when Alfonse the II of Asturias sent ambassadors to Charles the Great, the calipha from Cordoba was becoming the most powerful king of the moslem world, and Catalonia was the southern province of the empire of Charles himself.
All my friends, and people of my generation that I know, are unemployed, or have moved abroad, to Madrid or England or anywhere. The birth rate has fallen to one third in thirty years (I mean, now only one baby is born where three were before), and the countryside is growing unhabited. Cattle raisers, fishermen, even small store-owners are ruined due to the bad conditions that Spain negociated when joining the EU. All what I knew when I was a little boy is collapsing, I myself can`t find a future in my country, and you still want me to be proud of my being Spanish? What else, should I wave a Spanish flag when his Royal Highness comes to visit us during the Prince of Asturias awards???

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#63596 - 06/24/03 11:27 PM Re: ETA kills again
Quintos233 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 332
Loc: Southern California
I know I said I wasnt going to post again on this but im back :p Critisbo Carrin I really dont agree with your not feeling "Spanish" bah none sense! Are you suggesting we let this great nation my true love to wither and die NO! It wont happen we will rise again tomorow the new empire will be forged. The people of Spain and even Portugal have a common history and culture we have a Medeterenean culture and all of our languages derive from latin even Basque has adopted some latin. When we drove the moors of our land we established the great nation of Spain please be reminded this nation ruled half the world at one time and has survived many hardships including 700 yrs. of muslim rule I think the gallant Spaniards can handle Francos 30 yrs or so of rule. And we need to have sex more often to bring up the fertility rate and slow down this inmigration laugh Do we want a Spain to survive more? For say the next 20 or 30 years because the way its going now it will just be a puppet nation a nation with a paper foundation. In that case I agree with you Cristobo. More sex less imagration is what Spain needs. smile . Weres the galant Spain of 1492 and 1519 where is the valor and honor of our nation is it hidden deep in our spirits? Has it disapeared. No nos queda valor???? Ignacio: If you think the Guardia Civil is Castillas verison of ETA you are deeply mistakened you try to compare these two organizations as if they are both on the same page. The Guardia Civil may be a corrupted police force (from what you are telling me any ways it is) its still just that a corrupted police that doesn't justify it being on the equivalent of the murderers of women and children ETA. The Guardia Civil doesn't plant bombs in Bilbao every other week. You show me proof definent proof of Guardia Civil using torture tactics and show me them putting women and children in danger then mabey just mabey I will think it is justified to compare them to ETA Ignacio you are simply mistakened. In this whole ETA and Guardia Civil jig you got going I suggest you let go it isn't working for yea wink

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#63597 - 06/25/03 12:25 PM Re: ETA kills again
Roe Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/01
Posts: 176
Loc: california
Quintos233, that sounds a little like spanish nationalism to me...

I know that I said to let this topic go, but since it is still raging on, I suppose I will jump in.

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#63598 - 06/25/03 04:05 PM Re: ETA kills again
Quintos233 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 332
Loc: Southern California
Na its not raging on just forget about it. rolleyes Im sorry for actually being proud about my nation. frown

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