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#62788 - 10/06/02 12:09 PM Re: Batasuna
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Interesting...

I have friends of almost every political party in Spain: pro-government, socialists, communists, basque and catalonian nationalists, and even extreme-right. I have discussed with them about politics long and loud, at home and in the streets. And though sometimes we didn't agree and others the topic was hot, I have never been in a situation in which I thought it was better to just remain quiet and doesn't talk about politics.

But of course I don't live in the Basque Country, when stating your political point of view may cost you having your head's blown off...

Curiously my basque nationalist friend told me he didn't talk about politics at home, but in Madrid he had not problems at all.

Fernando

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#62789 - 10/06/02 06:52 PM Re: Batasuna
toddy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/00
Posts: 303
Loc: USA
I have to say an urban American expression Fernando: "You go Fernando" This means I TOTALLY agree with you and you should continue debating any and all issues. The world hides too many difficult issues frown

Fernando, keep on debating! laugh

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#62790 - 10/23/02 09:13 AM Re: Batasuna
toddy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/00
Posts: 303
Loc: USA
Quote:
Catalonia echoes Basque call for autonomy

Giles Tremlett in Madrid
Wednesday October 23, 2002
The Guardian

Spain entered a new and potentially critical phase of tension yesterday as Catalonia added its voice to demands from the Basque country for a fresh round of regional referendums over greater autonomy from Madrid.
The demands made in a historic speech by the new leader of Catalonia's ruling nationalists, Artur Mas, added pressure for an extensive rewrite of the rules that have governed Spain since the transition to democracy 25 years ago.

Mr Mas, who succeeds the Catalan regional premier Jordi Pujol as head of the nationalist Convergence and Union coalition, echoed demands from the Basque regional premier, Juan Jose Ibarretxe, when he called for "shared sovereignty" in Catalonia.

His proposals, which will form the backbone of the coalition's manifesto in regional polls next year, were a departure for the dominant party in Catalonia, going far beyond the sort of devolution experienced by Scotland and Wales.

Mr Mas called for a "single administration" in a Catalonia controlled by a regional government that would send its own representatives to the EU and other international bodies and would have the final word on the region's public finances.

Catalonia would also have to be formally recognised by the rest of Spain as "a nation", he said.

The demands were immediately criticised by the centre-right People's party government of prime minister Jose Maria Aznar.

"This is not a priority for Catalonia or for any other part of Spain," the deputy prime minister, Mariano Rajoy, said yesterday.

Mr Aznar's government, which has mounted a vigorous campaign against the Basque proposals for a referendum on self-determination, has suddenly found itself forced to fight on several fronts to maintain its centrist vision of Spain.

Mr Ibarretxe, meanwhile, held a long meeting with Arnaldo Otegi, head of the radical Basque separatist party Batasuna, a political ally of the armed separatist group Eta.

Although Batasuna has had its offices closed and bank accounts frozen while it is investigated for alleged collaboration with Eta - and while Mr Aznar's government prepares a separate court prosecution designed to ban it definitively - Mr Ibarretxe spent three hours discussing his controversial plan with Mr Otegi. These were deemed insufficient by Mr Otegi - once called "the Basque Gerry Adams".

"They are not enough to resolve the conflict," he said after the meeting.

Mr Ibarretxe has said that he would not call a referendum on the future of the Basque country unless Eta first gave up a 30-year campaign of violence - which has claimed 800 lives. Opponents call his proposals anti-constitutional.

Mr Mas' proposals were not quite as radical as those of Mr Ibarretxe and his non-violent Basque Nationalist party.

He called on the People's party and the opposition Socialists to negotiate with him a new statute that would replace the one which gave Catalonia semi-autonomy in 1979.

He held out the promise that, if Catalonia was given far greater autonomy then Convergence would also take up an invitation from Mr Aznar to join his central Spanish government in Madrid. But he also warned that his party would make life difficult for Mr Aznar if he did not play ball.

Catalonia's regional government already controls vast swathes of public administration, including education, health, culture and much policing.

Convergence and Union has won every Catalan election since 1980, allowing Mr Pujol to run the region for the past 22 years.

But Mr Mas faces a difficult battle against Barcelona's former Socialist mayor, Pascual Maragall, in the next regional elections - the first in which Mr Pujol will not stand.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I LOVE Catalunya, but my hate for terrorism and those who support or encourage it is greater mad

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#62791 - 10/23/02 03:56 PM Re: Batasuna
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
People's Party? laugh Funny translation.

Let me say that the Mr. Mas proposal has nothing to do with the basque nationalist proposal (but he has chosen the turmoil to take a political advantage).

Catalonia has very very little to do with the Basque Country. There is not a terrorist band (though two decades ago there was one), the nationalists have chosen a democratic way to pursue independentism (ERC the main independentist party), greater autonomy (as CiU) or a federal state model (PSC). Nor there is a general intimidation campaign or any lack of freedom, though, under my point of view, the nationalism has committed other grave errors.

I really doubt that the catalonian's nationalism objective in this moment is to support PNV. They are governing Catalonia with the votes of PP, and they can loose the government anytime soon at the hands of PSC-PSOE. Besides, they are much more realistic, much more pragmatic and much more moderated than the PNV/EA.

Oh, and good news: The PNV plan is encountering almost a total lack of support between the own basques and basque institutions.

Just my opinion...

Fernando

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#62792 - 10/23/02 07:38 PM Re: Batasuna
toddy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/00
Posts: 303
Loc: USA
Quote:
There is not a terrorist band (though two decades ago there was one),
Didn't a Catalan terrorist group set a bomb a few years back? frown

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#62793 - 10/23/02 09:28 PM Re: Batasuna
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
Mmmmm, as far as I remember no... do you refer to GRAPO? If so it is not a catalonian terrorist band, but a ultra-comunist one that has almost dissapeared.

Fernando

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