You are right Wolf, but there is still a very strong pragmatic point that has to be considered. Just look at how far the NAACP has taken some southern states. What an oportune (or in)time for them to think and act globaly. Modern racial politics is just recently starting to take hold in Europe. Think of possible ramifications. I didn't want to be an alarmist, I just wanted to raise awareness.

Toddy,

I'm not certain that I see the NAACP as a player in the international set. Fortunately their involvement in this matter was done through the U.S. State Department, and the U.S. Ambassador to Spain, not directly in confrontation to the Spanish government.

What concerns me most is that the State Department and the Ambassador had already began their own investigation of the incident, and were working with Spanish police officials to get at the truth as to what happened, and to find out if there was a civil rights violation.

The NAACP was very much aware of this, yet used the media to turn it into a three ring circus. If that was their intent, they did a good job of it, but it certainly won't help the situation as it stands.

If anything it will cause the Spanish police to become less open about the incident, and they certainly won't answer to any charges lodged against them by the NAACP. As far as they're concerned, they don't even exist.

Wolf

I don't agree with you all. Unfortunately, these incidents happen more often than we think, but rarely they happen with a famous musician, so we don't know about them. I think in general the treatment of the police with the low class inmigrants living in the cities is not totally correct, but the problem is that the managers of the police don't want to solve it. The treatment of the Government with this kind of inmigrants is embarrasing, long queues to get papers and problems with everything...
I think it's necessary a firm complain of the US embassy and diplomatic pressure to make that everything come clear and the right punish to the responsables, because normally the police try to justify all these things and bury it.
By other side, I think comercial or economic pressure has no sense.

Yes, Miguelito, incidents probably do happen more than the general public is aware - but, as Wolf stated, the media generates dollars by getting viewers/ readers/listeners (i.e. ratings that justify advertising dollars) and, sad to say, sensationalism sells. Purely economics. I am NOT berating the media - I am stating a well known fact that reporters, etc. do not and can not determine the overall approach of the media they are employed by. That's why Wolf is correct in saying the general public is rarely made aware of the non-sensational
side of an issue.

And I stand firmly behind the statement that the NAACP does not and never will be justified in getting involved. As someone stated - there are a lot of organizations in Spain are trying to eliminate racial problems.

[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: Puna ]

Miguelito, all,

I'm going to tell a couple of stories here that happened. I know, I was there. I was a cop myself.

A hold-up took place in a town. The person who commited it shot and killed the clerk and a 10 year old boy who was a customer in the store, after he got the money. He wasn't going to leave any witnesses behind. As he sped away in his car, a person who worked in the store next to the convenience store that was robbed heard the shots, and stepped outside her door in time to see the "suspect" speeding away in a car. She called the police, and said which direction he was traveling, and described the man, and the car. She did say, "An old blue car, with the vinyl roof peeling off."

An all points bulletin was immediately issued to all the surrounding towns. One officer, on a freeway, saw a "green" car, not blue drive by him slowly, but it had a raggedy vinyl top. Even though the car was the wrong color, he remembered the APB saying the man was black, and wore an afro. The guy in the car appeared to have an afro, but was trying to hide it under a baseball cap.

The officer pulled in behind the car, and turned on his lights, and had the driver pull over. As he pulled over behind him, the officer called in on his radio, and told the dispatcher that he'd made a stop, but it might not be the suspect. He asked for a back up, and I responded.

By the time the officer glanced up from his radio, the man was out of his car, and beside the police cruiser. He had pulled a gun and told the officer to hand his over. Needless to say, the cop knew he had the right guy.

"Yeah! Here! It ain't worth dying over." The officer said, as he slowly reached for the gun. Then, after he got the leather safety snap off, he leaned back in his seat and pulled the gun quickly, not to hand it over, but defend himself.

The suspect fired his gun. He hit the officer on the front part of the left shoulder, the bullet going through him, grazing his heart, and coming out on his right side.

The officer fired four shots "through the door of the car," hitting the man twice. He fell to the pavement.

Not knowing whether he was going to live or die, the officer found the strength to get out of the car, and decided that the suspect was not going to grab a hostage, or kill anyone else. Thinking it was his last moments on earth himself, he pulled the hammer back on his gun, and fired a shot into the man's forehead, as he lay prone on the ground, possibly only wounded.

Two cars drove by the scene and saw the officer shoot the man in the head. It led to an investigation, and he was nearly charged with "police abuse," because of his actions, and there those who called for murder charges.

When I arrived on the scene, both men were laying in a pool of blood. I called for two ambulances and additional help. The police officer survived.

A month later a hearing was held. "Outraged citizens" showed up accusing the officer of murder. On the second day of the hearing, which drew national attention, several more people showed up, after seeing what happened the first day, and said that they saw the man shoot the officer. They had seen the puff of smoke, then moments later saw the door of the police car being blown apart, as the officer fired back. He was exhonerated, but the newspapers failed to put that into their print. All they said was that the cop should have used "more discretion." To me, and to almost any cop alive, he did the right thing. To anyone who's children could have been endangered by this suspect (who was the killer at the store, ballistics proved it.), he did the right thing. To a community that doesn't want to hear the truth, he'll always be a killer cop.

The second incident directly involved me. A guy was trying to strong arm an old woman, to get her purse. He stood between me and the woman, and had a straight razor. He could either come at me, or the woman. When she took a step back, he turned slightly to face her, at which time I smashed him on the side of the head with my night stick (baton). He fell immediately, but as I stepped forward, he lashed out at me with the razor, and split my right calf wide open, severing the muscle in the leg.

Since I couldn't stand on the leg, I stood on my left, and struck him three more times on the head, shoulder, and the wrist, breaking his collar bone and his wrist. Then when he tried to roll over to grab the razor with his other hand, I struck him again, on the forehead, knocking him unconscious.

People who saw what happened at a distance only saw a police officer beating up a man, with a baton. Of course they screamed "police brutality," and I too faced a hearing. Had it not been for the woman, and a friend of hers who had gotten away from the assailant, and was a short distance away, I would have probably been charged and convicted of a crime. The funny part is, the one thing I felt I should have done, after he cut me with the razor, was pull my gun, and put a few .357 rounds in his head.

I was cleared of the charges. Yet, every time I went to make an arrest after that, I was a little hesitant on using force. I was beginning to wonder how long it would be until that hesitation cost me my own life, just because some people don't want to see the whole facts surrounding an issue, but opt to see only what they want.

For what it's worth, I just believe we have to wait until all the evidence is weighed on the Barcelona incident, until we know the whole truth.

Wolf

Clearly people misread situations. There are definitely false accounts of racial profiling, but to immediately assume it is not true is to deny that there is also a lot of validity to those complaints. Racism exists in the police force as it does everywhere else. [I am not saying that is what YOU are doing Wolf - I know you are as wise as ever and are waiting for the conclusion of the investigation.] I have seen firsthand the difference in how I am treated and how friends and loved ones of other ethnicities are treated. I never knew my own priviledge until I saw other people were treated and talked about when they were not present. I got pulled over by a policeman for the first time (in the 12 yrs that I have had my license) a few months ago. My good friend, a trilingual, upper- middle class, doctoral student and son of a college professor, who is black, has been pulled over 16 times. His driving habits are equal to mine. He is terrified of police, as is his mother. She never drives even one mile over the speed limit, because tiny, gentle woman is sincerely, profoundly afraid of the police. She has her equally legitimate reasons for that, things she has seen and experienced.

I would like to see more information about this case as well, but I am not going to immediately assume that 4 white police officers badly beating up one black man is completely free of racism. I think that is unrealistic. If it turns out that there were other things at play, so be it. Even better...but most of the symphony musicians I have met are not what one would characterize as "tough guys." Clarinets and violins aren't generally weapons used on the street.

Nicole,

I agree with you to a point. In our society a person is considered innocent until proven guilty. Therefore we cannot assume guilt for a police officer anymore than we can a defendant in any other case, until there is a complete investigation and findings.

Outrageous screams and threats from any part of our community, before the facts are clearly shown, is counter-productive to getting results in the end. It creates more confrontation, and there's already enough to make everyone a little shaky about what can and can't be said and/or done under those circumstances.

I know what you were talking about in regards to the lady and the friend. These acts, of pulling them over, isn't really profiling. What that actually amounts to is bigotry. The stops are just plain harassment. In my opinion, it's a far worse offense than profiling. It's a shame that people have to fear the police, because no matter what the Supreme Court says, the job of a police officer and fireman is to protect and serve the public. These men, who stop people just because they don't like the way they look, are violating that trust and must be dealt with harshly. They should not be allowed to remain in a position of trust, and should be punished under the law, like anyone else.

Wolf

I have read through all the previous posts and the article, and I feel the same as other replies that it is a "wait and see" situation. I think the operative word here is "alleged".

Hi all.

The people here who wants the US embassy and the NAACP to press "Spain" (don't know if it is its justice, its government, its police,...) are implicitly making a matter of fact from just what they have heard in the press:

1) That the alleged victim didn't resist identification.

2) That there was police brutality instead of police rudeness.

3) That the ulterior motive for the alleged brutality was racism.

4) That the spanish justice is not fair, and the Barcelona´s police is that corrupt to not court policemen who extralimited their functions (this one is the most gravest for me).

In fact, some people here has made their own judgement instead of waiting for the justice to make it. When you have a problem with this with the police here you just go to a Comisaría and denounce it. Then the judge investigate the facts and make a veredict, as in any other democratic country. Nor the judge, the police or the government needs pressure from a forgein organization or embassy to make justice and to comply with our constitution. The article 14 states that nobody could be discriminated in reason of its race, sex, social condition, religion, opinion or any other social or personal condition.

So let's do what Wolf and Puna says: Wait until the justice states what happened.

And as free as this country is, of course the US embassy has the right to complain. An american citizen alleged that has been beaten.

The NACCP (as any other international organization) can express their opinion of course, but they should not think of themselves as the international divine justice. In fact, they are judging matters according to an american way of thinking.

The black spanish population is not the 30% like in the US. It is much lower (0,1% may be?), and the majority of the blacks who are living in Spain are centroafrican inmigrants. Among them the crime is higher due to their precariety. And also the majority of them are illegal inmigrants. These are facts, no racial misjudgements.

One last thing: The justice and the press here are very sensitive to racial issues. A week ago a southamerican was beaten by 4 security guards in Barcelona (pure coincidence, Barcelona is not racist at a whole). They then took and threw him to the sea. He died.

Now they are courted (and the penalty will be graver because they recognize there were racial motives) and the press is still taking about the matter.

Best regards!

Fernando

Wolf,
I know it is difficult to swallow, but the NAACP have a lot of influence in the United States. This is a fact and I promise you that if they are not satisfied and become "outraged" they will preasure the US government AND corporations to put preasure on Spain. This will most probably be within the economic arena. The United States nor Spain can shun the political/economic realities of the world we live in. Remember, it is possible(as they have done in the UK)for the NAACP to use this issue to grasp more international recruits. However, I believe the Catalan elite will for sure "work" with the Barcelona police to sort out this situation. I'm confident that, as in most cases, economics will win out.