Hi all!
I just joined the BB, and I must say, you guys are awesome! I'm going to be spending next semester in Madrid, and I was wondering if I could get some advice on finances while abroad. I've heard that every time I want to withdraw money from an ATM machine while in Spain, I will be charged a $5 fee. Would it be better for me to just open an account in a Spanish bank for the time that I'll be there? If so, how would I go about doing this and what documents would I need to present to the bank? Thanks so much for your help. I hope I bump into some of you while in Madrid! Dios le bendiga.

Coolata--

Why don´t you check out opening a CITIBANK account where you can access your account from around the world? There are offices in Madrid, but I think you can also open one online at www.citibank.com ...

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: MadridMan ]

Opening a bank account is definitely a good option.

You only need an ID card, passport or other such document, and a couple of pesetas (1.000 for example). While here, you are not charged for getting money in the ATM machines as long as you do it in the machines of your brand (for example, if you open an account in BBVA you may get money from the Servired ATM machines, if you open it in the Santander Central Hispano you should use the TeleBanco 4B machines).

Fernando

I opened a bank account when I spent six months in Madrid in 1986. It is still probably the easiest option for a long term stay. Come to think of it, I didn't actually close the account when I left Spain and I'm sure I had a few thousand pesetas in it at that time.....I wonder if the account will still be open?

If you decide to open a bank account in Spain, try considering one of the "Caja" institutions such as the Caja Madrid ( www.cajamadrid.es ). They are closely tied to the state and are a non-profit institution. Therefore their service charges, if any, are considerably lower than the commercial banks. You can access your account online as well as in any of the branches, and through ATM machines.

If earning interest is your goal, try any of the online banks like Bankinter ( www.bankinter.es ), Patagon (www.patagon.es) or ING Direct...which has offices in the United States (I´m not sure about the other two. From what I understand, Patagon offers a 4% interest rate which is heads and shoulders above the majority of the banks here in Spain.

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: MadridMan ]

Spanish banks are notorious for paying NO interest on a savings account. So it really doesn't matter in which bank you have an account. In Madrid, Caja Madrid is convenient because there are so many branches. There are even offices of Caja Madrid in many of the provincial capitals. The minimum (to escape charges) was 50.000 pesetas. I wonder what it will be in euros?

Sometime in the summer, I attempted to open a cuenta de ahorro de no residente on line in preparation for my move to Madrid next year. I was disappointed to learn that Citibank does not offer any interest on savings for non residents. Patagon on the other hand wanted one million peseta minimum. Needless to say I decided to wait until I'm Madrid so I can shop for a better deal.

With the Spanish banks that offer accounts to non-residents (all of them?), I would suggest doing business with these institutions.

From my experience this last week, Citibank in the Salamanca offered no benefit to a fellow US citizen. My ATM demagnitized, and the credit card I wanted cash from (without a pin - I will not leave again without a PIN on ALL cards! ) was a Citibank. THEY WOULD OFFER ME NO SERVICE AS A NON-CUSTOMER IN SPAIN.

To my surprise, Caja Madrid was glad to advance pesetas from my American card.

Apparently, Citibank treats itself as a separate entity in Spain. From my experience with them...
keep your money with a Spanish bank!!!

Any Madrileños want to comment on what banks in Madrid offer the best services and value. Making an informed decission on who to bank with would help us would-be/will-be transplants...

Citibank in Spain is not considered a good bank. Keep in mind that the financial sector was one of the first ones liberalized, it is very internationalized and very comptetitive. Is one of our most powerful industries.

If you ask which is the best bank I would answer: what do you expect? It always depend on what you want from the bank.

If you want to leave the money alone for long periods of time then your choice is a Caja (for example Caja de Madrid, www.cajamadrid.es .)

If what you want is a place to temporally keep your money with almost no return for it, but you want to have a very extended ATM machines net, then your choice is a big bank, as Santander Central Hispano or Banco Bilbao Vizcaya http://www.santandercentralhispano.es , www.bbva.es ).

Perhaps what you need is other kinds of services, as buying theater and cinema tickets from the Internet, a good reimbursment (return) and a reasonable net of ATM machines. Then your choice would be La Caixa ( www.lacaixa.es ).

If what you want is to have a very big return, then don't put it in a bank. You may put it in an investment fund, in La Bolsa (budget, buying small percentages of companies, like in the Dow Jones) or in other such investment.

Hope this helps.

Fernando

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: MadridMan ]

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: Fernando ]

Citibank besides is a huge behemoth with its fingers in all sorts of nasty things.

When I arrived I first went to la Caixa which will give accounts to non residents.

With regards to Citibank, I recommended it because my sister does a lot of short term international travel (4-6 months each time) and uses Citibank. She has been pleased with their services. I personally do not like Citibank...before moving here I opened a special account with them for ex-pats (since I plan to be here longer than 6 months ;)). After I filled out the paperwork and sent it in, they mailed to me (to my address in Spain) the "membership package" that had a listing of all their services and the costs. I closed my account as soon as I saw that they were going to charge me $15 a month just for the "privilege" of having such an account with them. That information was not on their website. The only way I could bypass that $15 charge was to maintain a minimum balance of $10,000. Yeah right. That kind of money I have in investment funds not a savings account!

Presently I have my account with Caja Madrid and as previously mentioned, it has offices all over and a wide network of ATMs. I am pleased with their services, but am not sure of non-residents being able to open an account with them. You may need to request a NIE (Número de Identificación de Extranjero) when you get here. You can solicit this number from the Comisaria de Policia Sección de Extranjeria here in Madrid en la Plaza de La Remonta.

However, some banks will just need your passport number. It´s a question of getting here and asking around, or asking the banks online first before coming...

Good luck!

[ 01-01-2002: Message edited by: Chica ]

Thanks for the great posts here, I was going to post a similar topic about banking as well. I was thinking about Citibank, and am very happy to obtain some opinions here, now, Citibank is OUT!
Anyway, instead of posting another thread, may I ask a question here to add to the discussion?
My suegros have given us a rental property in Madrid and we need to open an account that we will be able to access from both countries. We are completely lost about which bank, penalties, if any, and ease of access if we need the money here in the States. We are going to keep this as a "savings" and not dip into it, except for emergencies. We have no plans on moving to Madrid in the near future and don't want my suegros to do too much. Any suggestions?

If you are staying for a long term in Spain, then it's definitely worth to open an account in a Spanish bank. Otherwise, you'll be charged a commission everytime you withdraw money from your account in the US.

Each bank has its own policy about accounts for non-residents and they may have different requirements. Some of them ask for the Tarjeta de Residente whereas others don't.

As for the ATMs, there are 3 systems here:

ServiRED
4B
Red 6000

Both Caja de Madrid and La Caixa used to be part of the Red 6000 system but now they moved on to the ServiRED network. Bearing in mind that the are the biggest savings bank in Spain and that La Caixa has plenty of branches all over Spain, this turn ServiRED into the largest ATM network.

However, both savings bank do charge commission if you use their cards in ServiRED ATMs different from their owns ATMs. But they just charge 50 pesetas for it.

Red 6000 has become the smallest system after La Caixa and Caja de Madrid left and I wouldn't advice using a Red 6000 card since it may be difficult for you to find a Red 6000 ATM in certain places.

4B is used by several banks, including Santander Central Hispano, which if I'm not mistaken, is the biggest bank in Spain (or is it the BBVA?).

If I had to choose my bank depending on the ATM network it uses, I would go for one tied to ServiRED. Among them, La Caixa has always provided me a very good service.

Lots of good, correct information posted. I am a long-time resident (while officially a non-resident). I have never had difficulty opening an account. Passport is basically all that is required. As a non-resident, you will not earn interest (at least I don´t)but you are given a bank card which will give you access to your funds. As others have said, to avoid incurring charges, you must use a bank within the same "chain", as 4B, Servired, Euro6000, etc. It is usually easy to find one in any city throughout Spain. Don´t worry - you´ll have no problems.

I quick note: my understanding that "Mastercard" is not usually accepted in Spain. ***So if you're US "checkcard" uses the Mastercard network, you may want to verify it'll work often in Spain*** My personal impression, but a bank officer did inform me of this on trying to take out funds on a card this last week.

I guess there is some truth in Visa's US ad slogan - "It's everywhere you want to be."

MasterCard, or "Maestro" as it is called here is also used. Lot's of ATM machines accept it without fee (mostly Santander Central Hispano). I have one Maestro card myself.

American Express is also accepted in some places BUT keep in mind that both cards are marginal. VISA is much more extended. You will have no problem to use any card they are everywhere accepted (of course not in villages of 10 inhabitants :p) the only problem is how much it will be charged to you for using it.

Fernando

Thanks Fernando for clearing this up.

Well, one more reason NOT to bank with Citibank. My incorrect info on Mastercards in Spain had come directly from the Spanish clerk at Citibank. Maybe his excuse so he didn't have to transact on my Citibank Mastercard.

I would say that almost all merchants I delt with wanted my Visa and not my AmEx or Matercards. Visa must give most a better "charge" rate.

I've never seen an ATM in Spain that doesn't accept Mastercard. In fact, most of them take a wide range of cards even those which are not available here.

As for paying at shops, again I think all TPVs (the machines used there) are able to take either Visa or Mastercard. However, these TPVs don't take American Express unless the shop owner specifically requested since they are charged twice the commission Visa or Mastercard charges them for every operation (ie, you may find places that don't take American Express).

Just as a curiosity, 60% of the debibt/credit cards in Spain are issued by Visa.

JJP,

Actually the majority of check cards issued today are both Visa/Mastercard logged, to insure you will get maximum usage just about anywhere. If anyone has one that isn't, they can usually request it from the bank they deal with.

Also, most of the Visa & Mastercards are doubled up today so they can be used as both. As I rummaged through my cards, and my wifes, I found that all of them are dual application.

On AmEx and Discovery, we found they were a nuisance even having the darned things anywhere we went. About 2/3 of the time they weren't even acceptable, and we had to turn to our trusty Visa cards.

In reference to having a Spanish checking account, that's not a bad idea, but if you're going to be operating mainly off of funds in the U.S., or any other home country, why not leave the majority of the money in that account, then transfer small amounts via an ATM card to the Spanish account, so you can continue to accrue interest on the account? Since the ATM will allow for instant transfers, you can replenish the account as you want, and not have the hassle of dealing with paper, and it can more than likely be done via the Internet if you'd like. To me, it would be simpler, and since there is only a single transaction fee which is very small, it would seem a lot cheaper than going into the bank and getting ripped for their commissions.

Wolf (Who has found that you probably should leave home without the AmEx card... )

[ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: Wolf ]

Mastercard is accepted in Spain, but it is worth noting that many places I made purchases couldn't (or wouldn't) take Mastercard. The Citibank ATM - but not the teller/bank-clerk - would take my MasterCard, but only because of the "Cirrus" link, and not because of Mastercard status.

Antonio, you're right, other ATMs would have taken my card had I had a PIN number .

My traveling belief is to limit cards I take with me - I think Visa makes the most sense while enjoying Spain. If the store takes plastic, they'll surely take Visa.

Note: American Express still offers some good services (good rates on currency, travel advice and post office service) to their card-holders in AmEx European offices.

[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: JJP ]

Just a note about credit cards in Spain, I think AMEX is geting a bad rap from some of you. I used my AMEX card every where even on the autopista to pay the toll. Another note the clerks/waiters in Spain do not know if they take your brand of credit card. They take it, try it and then come back and shake their head. So you just give them another one. It is important to have two credit cards with pin #s and you don't need to carry hardly any cash because you can get more at any corner.

I agree with Salabagirl regarding not having to carry cash. When my husband and I were still "dating", I traveled to Spain FREQUENTLY (meaning 3-4 times a year) and vice versa for him.

Since our trips were always short, (weekend, 4 or 5 day stays) it was a real hassle to continue to get travelers cheques, etc. So, I just kept a 2000 pta bill tucked in my wallet as well as a few coins and then had my ATM card on my. It was easy to get money from the cajeros automaticos and I was never too concerned about being mugged since I didn´t travel with much cash on hand.

With regards to AMEX, I have had the opposite experience. When traveling with a friend, she opted to bring an AMEX card, I stuck with the trusty VISA. She was sold on the "everywhere you want to be" slogan. When we got to Spain, she miserably found that her AMEX was not accepted in 50% of the places she wanted to use it (restaurants, hostal, etc.). However, that was a good 11 years ago, so certainly things may have changed. Just thought I´d post a few EUROS worth!

The reason why American Express cards as not so widely taken in Spain is because they charge nearly twice the commission Visa or Mastercard charges. If a shop wants to take them, they have to sign another contract with American Express and their bank will enable the TPV so that it can take also AMEX cards.

I'm not saying AMEX are not good cards because I don't know what they offer. They might be wonderful for their bearers but they are not for shopkeepers who get charged much more when allowing their customers to use it.

BTW, I forgot to say that Spain has the highest ATM per person ratio in Europe so unless you are in a small village, you shouldn't have problems finding one.

Hey Antonio! I live in a small village (El Espinar) and there are at least 3 ATMs here!! And that does not include the ATMs that are in San Rafael, and San Rafael de Los Angeles...which are also considered part of El Espinar!



[ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: Chica ]

I've had an AMEX card for many years as well as VISA. I can recall a number of times both in the US & overseas when the AMEX card was not accepted for payment whereas there's never been a problem with VISA.
A while back I was told that establishments that accepted AMEX had to wait longer for payment from American Express and in addition a higher (than VISA or MC) commission was deducted.

madridmanjim writes: There are more details that everyone should know. If you're like me, going in "cold" and not knowing what to do or where to go.... I tried it and this is what I found out:

While in Madrid a couple weeks ago, my ladyfriend and I went to three banks (Caja Madrid, Caixa, Banco de Santander) and they all told me the same thing. First, I went said police station on a Tuesday... Got there late, knowing it opened at 9am. I arrived at 10:30am. I saw a line outside the police station door about 20 people long and thought, "Oh No... I'll be here awhile." Then, I got to the end of the line and glanced across the street where, waiting impatiently, about 150 other foreigners were curving their way into a long, snakelike line that must have been the length of an "American" football field.

I waited at the end of the line for about 25 minutes and it didn't move. I left and vowed to get up early the next morning and get there long before the 9am opening time. SO I DID. Got up at 5am, took my time getting ready on a rainy Wednesday, took the metro, found my way (it had stopped raining, thank god) and arrived at about 8:30am, thinking I was just fine.

BUY MY GOD!! The line seemed longer than the day before!!! I got in line at 8:30am and made it HALFWAY through the line in just a little more than 2 hours!! I was only wearing a shirt and pullover sweater and it was cloudy and windy, MUCH colder than the day before. I waited for 2 hours, SHIVERING, and had to PEE like crazy!! I just couldn't take it anymore and dragged my butt away from the line in which I had suffered for the previous 2 hours and estimated I would have had to wait for at least one more hour to get in the building... where there was another line.

I went to the nearest café, sat at the bar, almost in tears (really!), ordered TWO café con leches, used the restroom, had some porras with the coffee, and was totally down, totally depressed, thinking I would never be able to get a bank account and establish my "presence" in Spain, something useful/necessary if I wanted to someday in the near future live/work there legally.

I told my story to a few people and BAM! Apparently I told my sob story to the RIGHT person because THAT RIGHT PERSON (sorry, I can't tell you who this person was or how I know this person), took me the next morning, armed with ONLY my passport, to a large Spanish bank where this mystery person introduced me to a friend who worked at the bank, a manager, and that manager allowed me to open a bank account with the bank. Now I have a bank account, internet account access, and only deposited 20€ upfront!

Yes. I was very, VERY, EXTEMELY fortunate to have told the right person and totally by chance. 99% of the people aren't so lucky and I've never been so lucky before (THAT'S for sure!). And please don't ask me to introduce you to this mystery person for the same favor. I can't do it.

But at least NOW you know what one has to go through to open bank account if you're foreign and don't have a company (or lawyer) to get you the required paperwork for you.

In 1999, I thought it would be simpler to attempt opening an account with a Citibanc and/or Barclays bank, but they both told me the same (they may have changed their rules since): I can NOT open a bank account at these banks UNLESS I can depost something crazy like $5,000 upfront and this has to be the minimum balance at all times in order to keep the account active. BUT, I could have done this with only my passport. Again, maybe they've changed this policy in the last couple of years. I don't know.

Good luck. And good patience. You'll need both.

Saludos, MadridMan

I am spending this summer in Spain...is there really a $5 charge each time I withdraw money at an ATM??? I was aware there might be a charge, but $5 seems like a lot!! I was told to use the ATMs because you generally get a better exchange rate than if you were going to a bank to exchange currencies.

MM?? Do you know if it would have been easier to open an account with your ladyfriend, since she is a resident? The reason why I ask, is because, when I move there, I would definitely open the account with my Spaniard name on it, So would you or anyone know the answer to this??? Thanks
LittleWing

LittleWing, our first hope was to open a joint account, but according to the bankers this was an impossibility since I wasn't a resident. Our only option was for me to open an account alone but WITH a CERTIFICADO DE NO RESIDENCIA. Sorry.

kelar419, I seriously doubt there's a $5 charge everytime you withdraw money from an ATM. I think it's a percentage rate, but MUCH lower than that you'd pay if you were to exchange traveler's checks. UPDATE: I just checked my current bank statement online. On 4/5/02, I withdrew 100€. At TODAY'S exchange rate, 100€ = $88.6 US. My bank statement shows the 100€ withdrawl as $89.14. So really, the fee is very very little (depending on your bank/card, I'd guess), less than $1 US per transaction. It's also been stated in this forum that when using an ATM debit card from a US credit union (nearly all of them), there is absolutely NO transaction fee when withdrawing cash in foreign countries.

I've mentioned this before but think it's worth repeating- some credit cards charge 2% for purchases made outside the U.S. American Express is famous for this. You don't notice the charge because they slip it into the exchange conversion. Check with your credit card company before going overseas- another reason to go with the credit union!

kelar,

I used my Bank One ATM at least 7 times to make cash withdrawals and I was charged a $7.50 fee. BankOne usually charges its customers a few for using non-BankOne ATMs after you've reached the minimimun allowance of 5 times anyway...But I still think the use of the ATM is simpler and most convenient...plus, using the ATM/debit card combination---you won't need any other credit cards...

I will have to check on that AMEX charge as soon as it posts on my online statement...that would be worth checking out!

Just my two cents,
Wyndyl

I was never charged to use an ATM in Spain. I bank with a credit union in VA and I get 5 free withdrawls every month. Not many people have that going with their bank.

Credit Unions are very good.

Shawn

Foriegners can open accounts at la Caixa or Banesto from what I know. I use Banesto because la Caixa are bastards and charge for everything. Banco Sabadell usually will do it too but they are only in Barcelona I think. This also depends on getting a helpful bank employee... welcome to Europe.

People living here can transfer their American Express accounts over to € and avoid problems with conversion. Citibank would not do it for a card I had with them hence they, too, are bastards!

After reading about the charges on the credit cards, I called several which companies and was told that VISA and Mastercard charge all the companies a flat 1% fee and then each company/bank is allowed to charge an additional fee if they so choose. The Mastercard card companies I checked, charged at least an additional 1% fee. MBNA America VISA was the only company that did not charge anything above the flat 1%. There were some cards with annual fees which offered other services, but I only checked NO fee cards. I even checked the companies who were listed in a previous thread as being NO charge cards. The credit card conversion rate is great and helps make up for this charge.

Asterault writes:
Banco Sabadell does have a main office here in Madrid if I recall correctly. I believe it is adjacent to the Plaza de Colón on La Castellana. I know that there are also branches (surcursales) here, but they are few and far between.

I agree with you regarding Citibank. They have a nice "program" for expats, but is only really worth it if your stay here is temporary and you plan to keep a balance of $5,000 - $10,000 in the checking account. Yes, in the CHECKING account. Shoot, that kinda money belongs in an investment fund.

If not, you get slapped with some horrendous fee for each transaction, including ATM withdrawls. I tossed the paperwork, but I believe it was like $5 per transaction and then a monthly fee ontop.

Asterault, Citibank are bastards, I agree 100%. They got me with the charges Chica was talking about (2000 pts./month for SAVINGS)! Can you imagine. They changed the regs after I had an account and that was the last month of my account there!

Wyndyl, check with your membership agreement with AMEX, it states it there. I kept receiving a monthly charge that was 2% above the charge (I was charged dollars in a foreign country so there was no exchange rate to smoke-screen it with). The AMEX representative didn't know why I was being charged the extra dollar/month and it wasn't until I had read online somewhere about the extra % they slip in that I knew (and then I read the agreement). I charged my wedding on the AMEX, imagine the money they got from that purchase alone!

Sel, I have the MBNA as well and I found few others (save credit unions) without the extra % charge. It adds up after years of foreign purchases, let me tell you!

Why can't it just be simple?

We use MBNA credit cards for all foreign purchases. The rates have been darned close to those listed in the newspaper. And better rates than using our Chase ATM card. And Chase charges us $3.00 for each withdrawal. But for cash, it's still the best bet for us.

Another tip is to tell your credit card company when you'll be abroad so all your purchases in Spain don't raise security flags.