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#59389 - 01/31/01 02:00 AM the great people on this board.
Anonymous
Unregistered


let me tell you guys something, ive never been to Spain before nor have i portugal. And i am going there in JUly. So im gonna have a bunch of questions .

now heres the kicker, Ive never felt more unwanted and ridiculed in my life.

the question i posted about cockroaches was a good question i think, ive been to Cape town s.africa which is a great city, beautiful, warm weather...etc. yet it was full of roaches. we didnt know this.

Now im planning my honeymoon to go to beautiful Spain, and it occoured to me to ask about any roach problem ahead of time. what is so stupid about that?

does that make me a dumb american? is that such an assanine question?

should i bring my gun to Espana in case there is a roach problem?

thats another thing, not all americans carry guns. just like not all mexicans carry knives. not all africans carry spears. thse are the stupidest comments ive ever heard. especially the canadien that made the comments. Stop watching Kids in the Hall and come up with your own origional comments about the U.S., aye?

isnt this board suposed to be informative about madrid and around Spain? cuz i have alot of questions but now ill have to go some place else.

way to go Madrid man, you should edit these negative comments towards your american posters.

asking if a country has roaches is a whole different question than asking if spain has toilet paper.

good night, i have to go back to cleaning and oiling my magnum44

dan of michigan signing off

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#59390 - 01/31/01 07:18 AM Re: the great people on this board.
Eddie Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 1713
Loc: Phila., PA, USA
Hey Dan: Don't let petty stuff like that put you off on MadridMan's board. Your question may have been viewed as unusual but it was quite understandable.

Now if you had asked about Snails, it might have been viewed as more bizarre but not too many years ago snails were a real problem in North Africa. European countries would require snail-free certification for anything shipped from Morocco or Algeria. Those tasty little escargots could destroy machinery, generators and even automobile engines if they got into them.

Don't abandon the board! You can find some good stuff here. And be careful cleaning that '44 Magnum.

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#59391 - 01/31/01 07:49 AM Re: the great people on this board.
MadridMan Offline


Executive Member

Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 9080
Loc: Madrid, Spain (was Columbus, O...
Hello summerinspain! Thank you for sharing your feelings about this board and its members' reactions to some of your postings. Please keep in mind that I don't censor anything the members say unless it is outright violent/aggressive. MadridMan's Spain Message Board is a "free" and "open" society where members can give their opinions, popular or otherwise. Your posting here is the perfect example of this and I'm glad you shared your feelings. There are many many different personalities in the world, but I think in general the collection of members here are intelligent, compassionate/passionate, helpful, understanding, and patient people. There will always be a few who are a bit raw, competitive, and argumentative. It's the diversity that makes message boards like this one so pleasing in a society (at least here in the USA from where the great majority of board members hail) when we are constantly afraid of offending someone, accidentally being politically INcorrect, stepping on toes, or whatever you want to call it.

Take everyone's comments with a grain of salt. Most postings are insightful and can be taken to heart. Asking about roaches in Spain is no more stupid than asking if they sell toilet paper in Spain. Well, okay, maybe the latter is a bit of a stretch, but.... hehehe... I'm born and raised "American" and before meeting my ladyfriend from Madrid 7 years ago, like many from the USA, had little knowledge about Spain or even Europe.... or Africa or South America or Russia or Asia. We're totally isolated here which partially explains why our geography and foreign language scores are always so low.

There will always be stereotypes about all cultures.....at least until there is more communication between members OF these cultures and THIS is just one of the reasons I created such a message board. Like everyone, I used to think Spain was all flamenco, paella, and bullfighting. AND NOW, I realize it's much much more.

We're not only here to ask questions, but also to share passions and experiences as well as opinions. And THIS gives the message board and its members flavor. Let's all open our hearts, minds, and extend a welcome hand to those whom are seeking assistance and guidance.

I'll step down from my pulpit (for now), but let me leave you with one final thought.... I haven't put away much of my "fresh-from-the-dryer" laundry for TWO WEEKS!! GADS! (and everyone looks around and mumbles, "What the heck is he talking about???")

Un Saludo, MadridMan
_________________________
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#59392 - 01/31/01 08:26 AM Re: the great people on this board.
mclarke Offline
Member

Registered: 09/19/00
Posts: 179
Loc: Arlington, VA
When I was planning my trip to Spain, MM's board was a great resource. Everyday, I logged in and read mostly every post. Finally, when I arrived Madrid, I felt so at home because most of the postings I read became a reality. I did not act like a typical lost tourist but took heed of what I've read from MM members who had visited Spain. In addition, reading postings from MM's members provide insights and attitudes of members coming from different part of the U.S.A and outside the U.S.A.

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#59393 - 01/31/01 09:20 AM Re: the great people on this board.
denise Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/15/00
Posts: 4
Loc: Portsmouth, Ohio, USA
I must agree with mclarke 100%. I went to Spain for the first time in December, and couldn't have done it without this message board. All of the opinions/information and help it offered, made my trip smooth and enjoyable. I'll be forever grateful for the work Madridman puts into this site... AND to those that take the time to post. Because of reading and planning, I now have wonderful memories of a beautiful country.
Gracias!!!
........denise

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#59394 - 01/31/01 09:41 AM Re: the great people on this board.
rgf Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 666
Loc: New York, New York
mclarke is a wonderful example of a person who came on the board with lots of questions, an open mind, a spirit of adventure, a willingness to adapt to Spanish culture... and then came back to share her experiences! I am one of the 'touchy' members of this board, and here is why. The "roach" question: what if people told you, yeah, there are some roaches in Spain. What will you do, take extra RAID? I am serious. The question isn't really about what to do, or expect, but shows a negative anticipation that implies dirt/unclean conditions. So I personally wouldn't react in my usual polite, helpful way (!!) with a question like that, but would happily app/roach (pun intended for Calibasco!) other topics. The people on this board are great, and they know Spain inside and out. So don't take offense, as MM says: just keep an open mind, as we all try to do!

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#59395 - 01/31/01 11:00 AM Re: the great people on this board.
mclarke Offline
Member

Registered: 09/19/00
Posts: 179
Loc: Arlington, VA
Denise,

When you arrived Spain, did you feel that it seemd you have been there? That's how I felt as soon as I arrived, all the expectations from MM's member posting suddenly became alive. My Spain experience will always be alive and I do feel lucky to have the opportunity to be in Spain for 3 weeks

Kisses, spanish style - left cheeck and right cheek.

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#59396 - 01/31/01 11:16 AM Re: the great people on this board.
CaliBasco Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 1495
Loc: Idaho
I'm not sure Dan will be reading this...as he's signed off, but I can understand his frustration. It took me quite some time to clearly convey my thoughts on ETA to those in that thread. I'm sure some still think I belong to the group, which couldn't be further from the truth. Although I don't remember all my posts, in my heart I tried to be objective in responding. I never looked at the roach thing as a "Spain must be dirty" question, but more as a "what am I to expect?" question. I guess it really bugs (for you rgf) some people, and they feel like they need to "defend" Spain. Spain doesn't need to be defended. Anyone who takes the time to go to Spain will be conquered regardless of how many roaches/toilet paper-sandpaper rolls/etarras there are. That's why we love this board:

In spite of our differences of opinion, age experience and understanding, we share a common love for SPAIN!!! I've felt welcomed since I signed on, regardless of any misconception of my views. Now I, like Nicole, can't wait to log on every day to see what my 'friends' have added.

Come on back whenever you care to, Dan. You're always welcome.
_________________________
Ongi etorri!

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#59397 - 01/31/01 01:26 PM Re: the great people on this board.
MadridMan Offline


Executive Member

Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 9080
Loc: Madrid, Spain (was Columbus, O...
Well said, CaliBasco. Now someone throw that man a fish! (for you, badger & Anchovy Front)
_________________________
Visit BarcelonaMan.com for Barcelona information, Transportation, Lodging, & much MUCH more!

Curious about what could POSSIBLY be inside the brain of MadridMan? Visit MadridMan's Madrid Blog

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#59398 - 01/31/01 01:42 PM Re: the great people on this board.
steveaqui Offline
Member

Registered: 09/01/00
Posts: 76
Loc: Inglaterra
Just read the cockroach question: I didn’t think it so daft a question and I didn’t think that the answers were out of proportion to the question or for that matter were directed, in any offensive way, at the person proposing the original question.

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#59399 - 01/31/01 01:51 PM Re: the great people on this board.
Amy25 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 47
Loc: Troy, MI USA
I would have to agree with Dan and MClarke both. After reading the comments that were posted to the cockroach question, I too probably would have been a little offended myself. You guys need to remember that what is said is taken directly for the face value it is given. It was a legitimate question and those of you that responded negatively turned it into something it didn't need to be. Remember, sarcasism is harder to catch when it is not spoken.
And I also agree with MClarke (and everyone else) that this site is great and I enjoy reading the posts from everyone. I have gotten a great deal of information that I probably wouldn't have found anywhere else. I can't wait to go to Spain, thanks to everyone's input.
_________________________
Contentment: the foremost wealth.

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#59400 - 01/31/01 04:34 PM Re: the great people on this board.
rgf Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 666
Loc: New York, New York
Calibasco, well said. Wish I had a pun for ya this PM but I am tired. For the record, I wasn't being mean or sarcastic to summerinspain, but yeah, I guess I was kind of defending Spain. And you are right, Spain doesn't need defending. When one of my students said, she hated the food, she hated the people, she hated everything! I just laughed and said, poor you, give it another chance. And she did, and loved Spain the second time. It was more about HER than anything else! I ramble. I've roached the end of my post. bad pun, but hey.

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#59401 - 01/31/01 06:22 PM Re: the great people on this board.
Anonymous
Unregistered


ive traveled over seas once and had a roach problem, im not gonna bring Raid if there is a bug problem, i just want to anticipate any thing that might put a damper on my once in a lifetime honeymoon/spain trip.

this will be my last post regarding roaches/weevils.

dan
gunless american

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#59402 - 01/31/01 08:09 PM Re: the great people on this board.
aphra Offline
Member

Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 62
Loc: New York City, USA
Kudos, Madridman, on your stalwart defense of the First Amendment and on your deft use of diplomacy. Have you considered applying for a post at the US Embassy in Madrid?

A few thoughts prompted by this thread:

Foreign travel can be scary and intimidating. If it were no different than a walk down our own blocks, many of us wouldn't have logged on to this site in the first place, would we? We all should try to bear that in mind when responding to one another's questions and comments.

Not everyone here is fluent in Spanish. When those who are just learning the language attempt to use a bit of it, best to offer corrections constructively--to teach--rather than confrontationally, which only discourages the beginner from even trying.

People are drawn to the cities they visit for different reasons, and no one experience is more or less valid than any other. Many people won't subsidize bullfights. Vegetarians won't touch jamon. Sephardic Jews might feel ill at ease in cathedrals and monasteries. Their having these feelings does not automatically constitute defamation of Spanish culture or a malicious insult to Spanish people, and they ought to be able to air their feelings here (respectfully) without fearing reprisals.

And for the record, the US capital is positively crawling with vermin. I used to work in Congress and can recall eating lunch in the Congressional dining room with my feet held up off the floor so mice wouldn't run over them. The city was built on a swamp and is a veritable breeding ground for rodents and cockroaches--including those who do and do not come up for reelection every two, four, or six years!

Now let's see if we can live up to the header on this post minus the sarcasm!

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#59403 - 01/31/01 08:22 PM Re: the great people on this board.
rgf Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 666
Loc: New York, New York
Aphra, VERY nice website/articles. Any photography exhibits of yours I should visit in NYC tomorrow? And good comments, too. You are right, if people want to try out their Spanish on this board we should be encouraging. I've been teaching University Spanish too long, I fear.

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#59404 - 01/31/01 09:17 PM Re: the great people on this board.
aphra Offline
Member

Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 62
Loc: New York City, USA
Well, rgf, as the Chilean singer with whom I'm so obsessed says, muchas y mas gracias!

My photography in a gallery? You flatter me! Just the odd piece here or there to accompany some piece of reporting--and the promise that some day I'll get around to getting that online gallery up on my site!

As for university teaching--I understand completely. My own father's grad school-level redlining of my grade-school book reports generally is credited with having made me a writer.

Let me know if you need any tips for your trip here tomorrow!

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#59405 - 01/31/01 09:49 PM Re: the great people on this board.
canadiense Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/17/00
Posts: 36
Loc: Magstadt, GERMANY
Dan, touchy, touchy. Calling my comments stupid, I take great offense. I truly believe about 90% of American citizens are clueless, as are probably 60% of Canadians (In our socialist system here they make you study other countries so that you can get a well rounded edumakashun). You can take that to the bank.

Obviously you have problems taking a joke. What, yet another yank with no sense of humour you say (now running at 76.55555555555551% for those keeping score). Notice how I'm not sterotyping here (like Kids in the Hall), just giving you the truth (I know, I know, it hurts).

So, besos from Canada, kiss my grits (just making you feel at home).

My advice is, stick around for awhile, get to know some folks, and lighten up. All will be forgiven in espana.

[This message has been edited by canadiense (edited 01-31-2001).]

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#59406 - 01/31/01 11:11 PM Re: the great people on this board.
rgf Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 666
Loc: New York, New York
Aprha, what Chilean singer is that? Well, if you know any good stuff going on in NYC related to el mundo hispanico...the cervantes.org website is out of date; doesn't look like much is doing at the americas society or el museo del barrio; I'm not free after 7 in the evenings, so it has to be day things. Maybe I should go up to the upper west side and see the corner where Julia de Burgos (great Puerto Rican poet for those who don't know her work) basically dropped dead, unknown and living the hard life!

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#59407 - 01/31/01 11:46 PM Re: the great people on this board.
Nicole Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 583
Loc: Los Angeles
Dan, it wasn't a silly question. At the same time I understand why folks get a little defensive about our frequent ignorance regarding other cultures and maybe see specific questions as meaning something they don't.

Roaches are a fairly global (especially tropical, if you are looking for enormous specimens) problem. The biggest one I ever saw in my life was in my parent's kitchen in Houston - after my neat freak mom had scoured the place and wiped it down with bleach on a rag (still don't know what that hideous creature was after or how it got in there; scared the crap out of me). The non-profit where I worked in KC had them everywhere. It was nauseating.

As for developing countries, I was thrilled when I moved to Chile that there are virtually no insects to speak of. yipee! Sure made camping in the mountains and on the beach a lot more fun.

Anyway, point being, there is no such thing as a silly question in the quest to learn about a place. I hope you have a wonderful honeymoon.

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#59408 - 01/31/01 11:51 PM Re: the great people on this board.
aphra Offline
Member

Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 62
Loc: New York City, USA
Getting WAY off topic now! The Chilean singer is Alberto Plaza. I discovered him in Ecuador last summer and was so smitten with his work that I wound up ordering all his albums from www.feriadeldisco.com in Chile. He's all over Napster if you want to check him out. As for Spanish stuff in NYC, how about Splendor of Alcora: Spanish Ceramics from the Eighteenth Century, Part One (1727-1749) at The Hispanic Society of America (613 W 155th, perhaps a little more Upper than you intended on the West Side). Or beyond Manhattan, the Thalia Spanish Theater (4117 Greenpoint Ave, Long Island City) the Zarzuelas center of NYC. On March 4 at Avery Fisher, you can see the National Orchestra of Spain with Pepe Romeros, Guitar. NYC--we may not be Madrid, but we got culcha!

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#59409 - 02/01/01 01:38 AM Re: the great people on this board.
Cristobal Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/01
Posts: 44
Loc: San Francisco CA USA
I think some people need to relax. But I would have to agree, most of us Americans tend to be very ignorant towards other peoples lifestyles. It's the "IN AMERICA WE DO IT THIS WAY" attitude. If my American friends act this way, I hide behide my Salvadoran passport and say that I just met these Americans on the train. Thank goodness for dual citizenship. Oh by the way, In El Salvador, every guard in front of a McDonald's, Pizza Hut, grocery store or bank has A VERY LARGE SEMI-AUTOMATIC RIFLE. Signing out Cristobal, gunless in the United States

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#59410 - 02/01/01 07:55 AM Re: the great people on this board.
rgf Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 666
Loc: New York, New York
Cristobal-- why do the guards have guns? Is it to 'protect Americans?' Or the McD's store itself? Aphra: thanks for the NYC suggestions and the namoe of Plaza. I love zarzuela, but won't have time on this trip to go....

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#59411 - 02/01/01 10:06 AM Re: the great people on this board.
Asterault Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/01
Posts: 536
Loc: Gijón
Posting statements that 90% of Americans are clueless and 60% of Canadians are is nonsense. I have lived half of my life in Europa and half in the United States and met plenty of idiots in both places. And there are roaches everywhere also.

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#59412 - 02/01/01 11:07 AM Re: the great people on this board.
CaliBasco Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 1495
Loc: Idaho
rgf- I think the guns are to keep people safe from the gigantic cockroaches at McDonald's. You never can pack enough heat for the "gigantus roachicus ronaldus."
_________________________
Ongi etorri!

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#59413 - 02/01/01 02:20 PM Re: the great people on this board.
canadiense Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/17/00
Posts: 36
Loc: Magstadt, GERMANY
Asterault, whaddaya mean my comments are nonsense?

Those numbers are pulled from the last US and Canadian censuses (say that 3 times fast)respectively. I am surprised people fill out those sections of the census myself, but what do I know.

OK, now take a deep breath, OF COURSE THOSE NUMBERS ARE NONESENSE. Estoy bromeando. Soy chistoso, and not a particularly good one at that.

As for Dan running to MadridMan to try and get me kicked off the board (hence this topic) and calling me stupid, all is forgiven. I didn't realize that you had such a delicate constitution and would take such offence to an obviously joking comment from me. Your question was a good one and totally valid (insert sound of me kissing your butt here), I was just making light of Nuria's post.

If you decide to stick around, I shall handle you with kid gloves, I promise. Just no more tattletaling to MadridMan on me

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#59414 - 02/01/01 02:26 PM Re: the great people on this board.
Nuria Offline
Member

Registered: 07/04/00
Posts: 263
Loc: NJ, USA
Oops, I feel responsible for the anger of our friend Summerinspain. Well, you don't know me but since I started writting here I got into troubles because I cannot express myself very well in English (I've only been here for 1 1/2 years) Same thing happen with El Viejo, I said something in a very rude way, but I swear that I didn't mean it (and I felt really bad). I know that your questions are inocent and you don't mean to insult, you are trying to get some info. That's why I said that I cannot help it... I mean, I know that you don't want to upset anybody but I cannot help to get upset when I hear something negative about my country. I am sorry if I offended you.
Best regards,
Nuria

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#59415 - 02/01/01 03:43 PM Re: the great people on this board.
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have no idea what the original question was... but for what it´s worth, I´ve been in Spain now for six months and I haven´t seen a single bug! Absolutely amazing.

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#59416 - 02/01/01 05:01 PM Re: the great people on this board.
Jaime Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/00
Posts: 147
I can see things from both Nuria's and Summerinspain's point of view. It seems like alot of people think Spain and Mexico are the same sometimes and if I was an Espanola I might be offended too, although I don't think that's why Summerinspain asked. Also, what's with this American bashing Canadiense? Do you get some kind of kick out of being conflictual? The majority of the posters here are American and are not ignorant by any standard. If you would like to participate in some real quality US bashing I suggest you try out www.lonelyplanet.com Then you could get your real jollies with a bunch of your own countrymen. Here we like to play nice.

[This message has been edited by Jaime (edited 02-01-2001).]

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#59417 - 02/01/01 09:24 PM Re: the great people on this board.
aphra Offline
Member

Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 62
Loc: New York City, USA
Hey, everyone--we need to stop this now. Seriously. Here's a community of very nearly 1000 people who have counted on each other for information, advice, humor, good-natured jibes...let's get back to that! Leaving aside the bruised feelings of some of the posters on this thread, let's think for a moment about the guy who built and monitors this site. Remember him? How'd you like to have devoted as huge a chunk of your brains, heart, and LIFE to making this what it is to and for all of us and see so much pointless infighting on this thread? In true MadridMan spirit, let's go back to talking about what makes Madrid such a special place--and this Web site such an incredible means of (virtually) transporting ourselves there!

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#59418 - 02/01/01 11:48 PM Re: the great people on this board.
MadridMan Offline


Executive Member

Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 9080
Loc: Madrid, Spain (was Columbus, O...
By the power vested in me on the website of MadridMan.com , I hearby close this thread as the topic has clearly "run its course" and nothing more can be gained by continuing (except for hurt feelings).

Saudos, MadridMan
_________________________
Visit BarcelonaMan.com for Barcelona information, Transportation, Lodging, & much MUCH more!

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