RJF,

Unfortunately here in the US we have wat's called a "constitution"... Regardless of what you think of the electoral system, it is there and it is the law. Neither A "confusing ballot" nor anything else is a cause for ignoring the law. If someone has a arguement with the electoral college, they need to take it up with congress. Like it or not, George W. Bush is the winner of this election verified by an ititial count and then a law required re-count.

Anyway, this is my spcheal and that's that!

I hear Madrid is beautiful this time of year.

You mean spiel (yiddish). Yes, we have laws, and Bush's team chose to derride the judiciary branch when they interpreted the law in Gore's favor. Time for Bush to get off his high Texan horse and call for a full state, hand recount, and agree to abide by the results. But noooo, he might... LOSE to a full, fair count. Much better to say, whatever the machine produces as long as it is in his favor applies! THis is a nasty, gutter political battle, and all calls to respect the Laws of the Land go contested by the other camp according to what they want to happen. That's why it's not a bad thing to have the Supreme Court get into the mix. They are the group must likely to study the law and apply it well, though too many of them are Papa Bush's friends for my taste...!

PS to Shawn: does getting along mean we can never discuss things that push our buttons? No one compels you to respond to something in General Chatter (that's why MM created the forum: for non-Spain related things on our mind!). Sheesh, it is just politics: precisely. People in Spain used to talk politics all day and night, among friends, in bars etc. Now what is the hot topic: el ultimo telefono mobil or smtg? Now turn on your TV because you are about to see Bush certified the winner by that neutral, objective, law upholding secretary of state in florida who just happens to be... co-chair of the statewide committee to elect Bush president.

RGF,

I take it that you are just as opposed to Attorney General Butterworth being as involved as Harris since Butterwoth is Gore's Florida co-chair? Are you concerned about not all the overseas votes counting?

Sorry I started this...

RGF, its obvious who you want to win this election. However, neither side is clean in Florida, both have resorted to crass political manuevering, character-assasination, frivilous lawsuits and intimidation in attempts to win at any cost. Gore has conducted himself like the political pit bull we all knew he was, and Bush has matched him blow for blow. No one has any moral high ground in this mess. Whomever "wins" will be a lame duck the moment he steps into office. The only winners are the battalions of out of state lawyers who are racking up massive fees for their "services".

Of course I am concerned about ALL the dirty politics, and want all legitimately cast votes to count, and be counted! I do draw the line, though, on saying that all military votes should count even if the voters are not registered, did not request an absentee ballot, etc. Please. But I am not thrilled about dimple divining, either. I would have liked to see a whole Florida hand count with a uniform standard (and it seems to me that the chad should have at least one corner off to signal the voter did something to it!). how did it come down to a few hundred votes and dimples! anyway, happy t-giving weekend to all, and whomever is prez will be so crippled he might just as well look into retirement now.

RGF-- We can only hope!

P.S. It was 70 in Sevilla yesterday!

Kurt: No need to apologize. I have enjoyed the discussion and everyone's opinion! Oh to be in Sevilla though. . . .

I don't know if you care to hear about it, but yesterday there were general elections in Romania too. Unfortunately the people voted for the left side of the political pie and some really crazy nationalist (in fact more than nationalist, anti-jew and rasist and so on) took almost 30% from our Parlament. So I am so sad and perhaps I am really ashamed of my conationals. I think pissed off is the most appropiate term. I still don't belive it though...

rgf - my feelings entirely! At this point, neither party nor candidate is doing much to gain respect from anyone. Sorry guys, but when a candidate wins the popular vote that candidate should win the presidency. As we are all too painfully aware, the electoral college was instituted in the days of a white male landowner = a vote. We no longer in that position - thank God - 'thou I do believe the current govenor of Texas would love to take us back ....

This drawn-out exercise shows just how much the electoral college should be eliminated. One registered person - one vote = vote SHOULD count.

Solution to the current nonsense - why not pull another FDR and keep Clinton in for a third term?