Gregorio: I think you are right about people that stay in school in order to avoid the "real world." It is fun to sit in the student union and talk to the chicks, maybe cut "ancient history" and go over to somebody's house and pass the bong around. Sooner or later you have to pay the piper. You cannot declare bankruptcy to avoid paying student loans.

Pippo: Advanced degrees are only as valuable as the mind they are planted in. We have many people in the US that get the degree then go to work and get in their head that they need more education, then they will start another area of study all together.

As far as the people on the internet wanting to know how much money that you have before they will date. That is very common. It is not unusal to see an ad placed by a women who wants a man that earns $30,000 per month. I will give you a real good example of some of the women that are around the Phoenix, Arizona area. I had this very same conversation with my wife and another couple a few years ago. There is a place in Scottsdale, Arizona where you can rent Ferraris, Maseratis, cars like that. The conversation with my wife and friends was that they did not think that those things were important to women. So to drive home the point, we set up a time that the other couple and my wife would meet at a certain bar in Scottsdale. This place is known as a high dollar hang out. The first time they were there ahead of me, I drove up in my pickup dressed casually, parked in the vallet then went in. Did not act as though I knew anyone, although my wife and the other couple were there and watching the entire time. Never could strike a conversation with anyone there, even the women that were clearly business women. The next weekend we all went back to the same place, this time I rented a Ferrari, dressed casually again, parked in the vallet parking area,and once inside the bar I made sure that everyone got a look at my cash roll. I was approached by no less than eight women, some of them had no qualms about where they put their hands either. One of them was so agressive, that Mrs.Dweller descided she needed to come over and look out for her territory. In the US we call women like that "Gold Diggers." You have no problem meeting them on the net and they will tell you up front what kind of money they expect you do to have. You have to bear in mind that not all women are like that, but there is no shortage of the ones that are that way, and you do not have to look hard to find them. I have a sister-in-law that made sure that she married a doctor so that she could "live the good life" and she literally targeted that poor bastard for marriage. After she had been married a few years and of course things were not going the way she wanted them to go she went to a lawyer to find out what she would get from a divorce. The lawyer told her she would get nothing, she back away from the divorce idea and stayed with him. Such a sweetheart she is.

pippo writes (in pertinent part): And with the UE, many Craftsmen came to Spain to fill that need (i.e., from Poland, for example). A good percentage of them are working 'off the books.' They do jobs ike maintaining Pisos: painting, plumbing, carpentry, etc. They are not counted as part of the Spanish labor pool; they are officially invisible. The same may also be said for all the German families that run restaurants along the Costa Blanca and the 'Brits' doing the same on the Costa del Sol. They put in long hours and earn lots of Euro. Meanwhile many Spaniards hide behind the Biblical: "to dig I am unable; to beg I am ashamed."

I am not saying that Spanish workers don't want to work or that they don't do an honest day's work. It might have been fashionable to study Philosophy at the University, but there isn't much of a market for Philosophers or Social Scientists out there.

It has been long true in the U.S. that Craftsmen earn substantially more than Office Workers or even Teachers. Even unskilled labor in the U.S. (Garbage collectors, for example) get starting salary equivalent to a Bank Officer who has come up thru the Bank's Management Trainee program.

Well, I have no words.
That's true?



This idea that you are pointing is a huge fact in Spain, I could say that at least 15% of all the bricklayers and plumbers I know are Romanian or from Lithuania.
It's incredible.
And the builders are earning big money with them cause they are paid 15-25% less than a spaniard for the same job.


Well, I'm gonna give you a real exemple:
My cousin is nanager in an agricultural cooperative, he told me that last month they offered two jobs:
a) Accountant, they asked for some young boy with a degree in bussiness administration, they offered 750 euros/ month.
They had 60 candidates in only 2 days.

b) A irrigate-man (he had to irrigate orange trees), this job don't need qualification.
They offered 800 euros / month.
Candidates the first week: ZERO. (only illegal immigrants but no spaniards).
Then they offered 1100 euros month.
Candidates: ZERO.
Then offered 1500 euros month:
Candidates 2.

If somebody want to check it or want to know how easy-hard is find a good job being a craftsman or a man with a college degree I recommend to go to
www.infojobs.net
It's the most important site in Spain to find a job.

I copy an exemple:

I wrote in the websearcher the word "fontanero" (plumber) outcome: 50 job offers.
Candidates per offer: 0-10.
Salary, most of them beetween 15000-25000 plus extras, some offers go to 50.000.

I wrote the word psicologo (psicologist):

Outcome: 20 offers.
Candidates per offer: around 200
Salary: 12-15000 euros year, some go to 24.000

Desert Dweller -

I read "I will give you a real good example of some of the women that are around the Phoenix, Arizona area" and my first thought was, yes, of course, Scottsdale - and, sure enough .... some things never change, huh?

Puna: That is just because that is where that particular bar is. I used that bar because it has a large outdoor area facing the parking lot with a large front window also facing the parking area. Any of those high end clubs in Scottsdale, Paradise Valley, or Northeast Phoenix,will have an ample supply of Gold Diggers. Yeah you are right things will never change in that area.

It is interesting that you mention Scottsdale, I have never been impressed with the place or the people. Chevrolet came out with one of their pickup lines several years ago and called it the Scottsdale, it was their bottom of the line basic truck. Several of my associates refuse to do service work in that area that I mentioned because of the high rate of bad checks. So it is not just you and I that are not impressed with the illustrious Snobsdale.