The gist of what Fernando was saying in the post directly above is, I believe, that, in general, the Gypsy/Gitano culture prefers not to be an intregal part of society. This is true not only in Spain but throughout Europe - both eastern and western Europe. The fact that most Gypsys have not integrated into any of the European societies
has been one primarily of their choice.

Historical fact ....

If at all possible to bring the subject back to the original question:

There is one city unique in Spain for its integration of gypsy with non-gypsy, and that is Jerez, where you find the not oft-used term 'entreverao' to refer to someone of 'mixed' heritage. The gypsies I have met and known are a proud, dignified people who for the most part keep to their families and go about their business just like anyone else. As some have suggested here it is a difficult group to understand because they are very private and family oriented and aren't particularly interested in foreigners (a few opportunistic gypsies who take advantage of unsuspecting foreigners aside, certainly not representative of everyone, and I am speaking primarily of jerez here). It is a somewhat fascinating mix, as there are the usual prejudices against gypsies here as well though so much gyspy language and culure is present in this part of Andalucia.

...Ohhh !!! I gotta pitch in on this one !

First of all, my source of information comes from my own personal experience by being born and raised in Sevilla, capital of Andalucia, until I was 17 years old. While living in Spain I frequently travelled from coast to coast (Northern/Southern) coasts of Spain from Galicia to Cadiz and all pueblos and ciudades in between with an emphasis on a yearly visit to relatives in the heart of Madrid.

Now, knowing my exposure to Spain,,,I shall proceed.

Here's what I currently know about Gitanos in Spain, mind you that I left Sevilla in 1987 at age 17, although I've visited since in '88, '89, '90, '92, '96 and '99.

The typical Gitano is considered an underclassed member of sociaty. Gitanos can be found in large gatherings living in shacks, tents, vehicles, forming a colony resembling those of homeless people in the US, anywhere around the outskirts or large vacant spaces within the city.

This group has very long deep roots into their own culture, own language according to their location in the world, in Sevilla I recall that they also spoke "Calé", "Caló". They typically make a living by selling items, crafts, doing menial jobs and may follow activities and festivities (such as La Feria) peripherally as an indirect source of income, while others may actually own an operate some of the thrill rides. Others may stay put within the same area for years.

The element of stealing seems to be an opportunistic one, however, somewhat violent within the youth group. This is true on all societies where the underpriviledged may be an opportunistic thief, not truly going to to steal anything but taking it if "silver plattered" and the youths resorting to an easier way of making a living but robbing folks, at times violently.

The percentage of violence and crime is generally low within their society but higher than the sorrounding society thus creating the big issue with racial, ethnic tensions and of course our good friend Stereotype... Does this ring any bells to anyone in the US?

Then you have Gitanos like my best childhood friend, Manuel J. R., from Sevilla and his parents who "made it", integrated themselves into a part of town, held steady solid jobs in a company, organization, what not. Manuel went to public school and was by best friend until we lost contact in '99.

Manuel, a Gitano, physically resembled a taller, bigger version of a Native American. He would not allow anyone to bash on the Gitano culture and was very fluent, articulated and knowledgeable on many subject matters even politics during our teens years.

Manuel wasn't blind, oh no, Manuel saw what I described above about the Gitanos, in fact, I was mugged twice as a kid, once with Manuel but we took his butterknife, yes, a single assailant with a friggin' butterknife from this way too youg Gitano kid, typically it would have been ass whoop time but instead, in a very local streel slang we warned him off (cusha gorfo! te voy a pisá la boca, perra. Como me va a robá a mí que soy der polígono, ome? Ojú quillo, como yo te vea otra vé por aquí verá la que te voy a dá) we told him where we were from (Poligono De San Pablo, aka Der Poligono) which is not a rich kids neighborhood at all and thanked us for not "pisarme la boca" and run away, mind you that we were 14-15 yrs old.

So, to cap it all up.

Objectivately, Gitanos may live similarly to what you may see under a bridge in the US, this is the darker more biased aspect part of it but they have also integrated under the majority of society some disappearing forever in the crowd, so much so that one may be a flight crew member on your next Iberia Flight, or your bank teller, camarero, etc...

If you ever passed through and indian reservation area of poorer quailities, with shack looking homes, beatten clothlines, unkept general areas, etc... can bring you close to the appearance and being of Gitanos, people with long deep roots into a very old rich culture,,, yet underpriviledged.

This is all based on my personal living and seeing experience, over the years... since 1987... local laws may have changed, old vacant lots and outskirts developed, housing projects and citizen benefits added and changed to the point where the ability of actually seeing Gitanos in such a poor economic stated may have hopefylly changed for the better.

Well, I've had the most enlightening moment replying to a post about Gitanos earlier... memories long lived.

Here's my question.

Are there any Gitanos in this group?

The Gypsy culture in the US is predominantly one of organized crime. It has nothing to do with race, poverty, or some other "ism". This is their chosen lifestyle.

The Rom or Romany culture has dedicated itself to duping and fleecing the non-gypsies or (gadji) for centuries.

Here in the US, they run palm reading parlors, engage in welfare fraud, and bogus home repair. They are typically non-violent, but the young Rom are now becoming involved with drug trafficking and violence often accompanies this vocation.

The Gypsies prey on the knaive and the greedy and in some ways, they are astute judges of human nature. They appeal to our "something for nothing" impulses.

They are masters of the "con games" and you are to blame if you fall for their schemes. I have dealt with them many times over the years as a part of my job and what they are "selling" is always too good to be true!

Our friend who wants to "immerse herself in Gypsy culture" may be just what they are looking for.

Yeah, I even remember an old episode of CHIPS where Gypsy's were faking getting hit by cars and trying to blackmail the drivers. Good thing Ponch and John were on the job.

And don't forget the gypsy caravan (with Jamie Farr as the son) that setup camp outside of Mayberry on The Andy Griffith Show . Window-sil-cooling-pies were stolen as were chickens and other stuff. But they were caught and eventually left town. Good thing Andy and Barney were on the job!

But in all seriousness, these gypsies on TV and in movies are your stereotypical, type-cast characters where every gypsy is a thief. I'm sure that's not the case in real-life. I'm not even sure if we have any gypsies in the USA anymore.

Saludos, MadridMan

Come on!!! no gypsy reading this thread who can help our brave adventurer!!!!! what! don´t you speak english gypies!!??

A.

Oh yeah....we have Gypsies in the USA.

They will be happy to seal your blacktop driveway or read your palm ! In fact, very close to you MM, on Westerville Rd.

If you decide to do business with them, not even Ponch or Andy can help you!

And yes Martha, they are all thieves!

Ever heard of the "Irish Travelers"?

Dave B: I would chime in and comment on this but is sound like you are doing real good on your own. If it aint nailed down, consider it gone.

Carnies are another crowd that will clean out a town when they show up. Sometime they will steal the nails.

Señor DD:

You are always welcome to "chime in"