Yep. there was a report on Mexico on the business channel here in the U.S. It said that mexico has 85,000 millionares. It has greater wealth than any other contry in Latin America and yet there are 10 million illegal aliens from mexico living in the U.S. It has to do with friends of friends of rich families profiting from their people. As for vincente fox , he has no plan whatsoever. He has not done much for the country except for sending more people to the U.S. That is his plan. No real structural reform. It business as usual.In boston many rich mexicans come here to study.

Fox has proven to be a dismal failure for Mexico and a "business as usual" type of president. He is going to have to realize that Mexico has to attack it's own problems and not export them to the US. His main problem is corruption and pay off of police by narco dollars. Payoff of police officers is done out in the open, and they make no effort to hide it.

Looking back and hanging on to use to be, seems to be a way of life for some people. Until such time as people can put away the past and move forward there will be no future for Mexico. Their hanging on to the past, is what is keeping them from moving forward.

Well put, Matador and Desert Dweller!
I don't know what, short of a revolution, could change things. The rich sure aren't going to have pangs of guilt about destroying their own country, and the poor aren't able to do much about it. I know those of us who scream "Enough!" sound cold hearted, but the US cannot solve all the world's problems. W has got to let Fox know in no uncertain terms that Fox is responsible for his own people...not us!

Mexican-British relations

Mexican people in general don't despise Spain or Spaniards. You ask them what their main concerns are and I guarantee you that resenting anything Spanish will not come up. In contrast to other comments here I have found very little negativity among Mexican people towards Spaniards. They're always ready and proud to say that they have a relative or ancestor that was from Spain. La Maestra mentioned M.E.C.H.A. That's a radical group of Mexican Americans or should I say Chicanos,(gawd I hate that word!)that denouces Spain but also denouces the United States too. When I was in high school we had a M.E.C.H.A. club. I was not a member of it. I couldn't stand the retoric and sounded too radical to me. Yes, Im of Mexican/Spanish decent but Im first and foremost an American. Another interesting point that La Maestra made was that Mexican people find themselves in a quandary. Not wanting to be identified as Indian or having Indian blood, but at the same time not identyfing totally with being Spanish. It is that pride in being Mexicano, a combination of both heritages that they identify with mostly!

I feel badly for these people that have to cross over the border leaving their families in search of work to support their families, it's not fair that their own government forces them to do this than to build up their own economy to provide for it's own people. If you take the time to speak with them they'll tell you that they don't want to be here. They know they're not wanted and feel the resentment, but what choice do they have when they face poverty and starvation back home? The vast majority of these people do send their money back home, (which btw a laborer here can make more in a week than he can an entire month back home)not to support the Mexican government but to support their families. Yes, Mexico does benefit because the money goes into their banks, but these people ultimately want to buy land and to build homes for themselves, something that is of great significance in Mexico, that is to own land. Now, one point I would like to make regarding medical care is that I would rather have these people being treated at clinics or emergency rooms than have them sick among the general population and possibly spread communicable diseases that we have either erradicated or have not seen here in the US! Not that I WANT to pay for these services but for now there's not much we can do about it.

I have always felt that if Mexico had been colonized by Britain rather than Spain it would be one of the most prosperous nations today. The perfect examples are of Australia, Canada and New Zealand, and the USA. All prosperous former British colonies. Although I can sight some countries that have failed to prosper after British rule. Spain took, but it really didn't give anything back to it's colonies! Yes, they have the language, surnames and transplanted traditions, but regards to taking care of it's colonies it really didn't do anything. Why do you think all of it's colonies rebelled? It also ignored California,(big mistake)! Even Argentina and Uruguay where the Indian population was low wanted to break away. If a child is neglected and ignored by it's parents eventually that child will resent them. The child will have grown up wondering what they ever did for him. Is it a wonder that the child would have resentment towards his uncaring parents?

"In fact, 30 years ago Mexico had a greater per capita richness than Spain."

Fernando

Quintos quote: "Yea 30 years ago. Back then Spain was still in bad condition because of Spanish Civil War and other ecenomic problems."

Quintos why do you gloat over the misfortune of these people? I don't think it's funny at all! I think it was a bit insensitive myself. Now, before you counter with how Mexicans are insenstive towards Spaniards, we need to focus on how to overcome negativity towards one another, and one of the best ways is with respect!

Thanks Oso....I am glad you responded.
I've been reading this thread and wanted to respond but there was alot to say and you covered some of it.
In my circle of friends and family there are no bad comments or resentment towards Spanish.This sounds so ridiculous to me.
I was born and raised in the US.Both my parents are Mexican and taught us our history but always spoke good things about Spain.
Even when I asked quite a bit of my Mexican friends they responded with the same opinion.
They said we don't even think about the conquest or talk about the Spanish in any bad way.What kind of people are you talking to they asked.I told them it was a thread and they made a stare like who in the heck is waisting time with that subject.
I want to know more about what's going on so I don't think it's a waste of time but I think in some cases we are hearing a one sided opinion.
I know La Maestra you said there are an alarming amount of educated Mexicans you've encountered that have resentment to Spain but this is not all of us.
In fact there is probably more resentment along the border towns in Arizona,Texas etc.with Americans and Mexicans,even within Mexico with the Indian groups which is a shame.
I live in California and zero people agreed with this Spanish hatred idea.I'm not saying it doesn't exist in California but I'm saying in my circle no way this is true.
We cannot generalize with a whole country or it's decendants.
I almost believe there might be a difference in age gropups here.Is that possible?
Most of my friends are in the 20 to 40 range.
I am hoping that is part of the difference.

Eduardoca, I don't know if it is an age issue. One of the people I spoke of is a Spanish teacher who refuses to teach anything about Spanish history! She says all kids need to know is how great Mexico was! And quite possibly, those of us who live a stone's throw from the border get more anti-everything than the rest of you do. There is also an extra dose going around in New Mexico...especially among those who subscribe to the Anaya school of thought. In California's history, didn't you go through a period where you were ruled by the dones rather than by Spain? Maybe that's part of it too. Mexicans here went to sleep under the Mexican flag and woke up under the American one!

I have't had random Mexican Americans come up to me and start talking about the Conquest, and generally in Mexico, folks have been very gracious. The topic comes up among students (12-18), but perhaps this comes in part from general teen animosity towards any authority figure. And, as I mentioned, MECHA was quite popular around here. The adult mentors were quite eager to talk against both Spain and the US.

As for an earlier post (Oso?) about the Indian vs Spaniard identity thing...I've had students scream "I'm not Indian at all! I'm Mexican!" when we studied the history of Mexico! They have changed "gachupines" to "gabachos" when they speak of anyone European, and it is never said with love!

California has a rich legacy of Spanish history with the establishment of the 21 mission chain from San Diego to Sonoma, presidios and large land grants from the King of Spain that established the ranchos owned by the Dons who became the aristocracy of California and governed all inhabitants on their land. The missions that were established were of great importance to the population. They worked there, were fed and protected there. And they were run by Spanish priests. The local peasantry looked up to the church and the Dons for protection. The missions today still hold a great importance to the communities that surround them. Several of them are still in use as parishes and are active in church services.

The Spanish crown did not see California as a source of revenue. It was, however, seen to have political/military importance in protecting New Spain's northwestern position in the Americas. Spain never did strengthen its military position in California sufficiently to thwart hostile military action but relied instead on the Spanish presence to pose a sort of political trip wire - hostile action in California would result in war with Spain. Political and military leaders in California charged with it's development and defense were constantly frustrated and angered by what they perceived as inadequate attention and support by their superiors in Mexico City. Authorities in Mexico City saw California as an economic drain on resources. It was a strained relationship at best.

After Mexican independence had been won in 1821, Californios (as they there were called back then)continued to feel neglected by the Mexican government just as they had been under Spanish authority. In California the political discussion revolved around the question of an independent California separate from Mexico.

In March 1842 a vaquero named Francisco Lopez brought some gold nuggets to the Mexican authorities in Los Angeles. A number of prospectors converged on the discovery site in Placerita Canyon in the San Fernando Valley. Mining commenced and about two thousand ounces of gold was recovered. California Governor Juan Bautista Alvarado sent samples to Mexico City and, in an associated report, suggested that the government send a scientific team to survey and explore to determine whether or not there might be more gold in California. The Minister of the Interior replied that Mexico had immense mineral wealth and that the California find did not seem to amount to much. He was wrong and, less than six years later, Mexico would cede California to the United States nine days after the largest gold strike in history!

You don't hear the resentment here from the Mexican population against Spain. We have a romantic view of our history with Spain. If you hear negative comments it's mostly by young and middle aged Mexican Americans that want to hold tight to their Mexican legacy and Indian roots. I may be wrong but I think this anti-spanish attitude may have started in the '70s when radical Chicano groups were trying to awaken the Mexican population in the US to take pride in their indigenous past and to embrace it rather than their Spanish ancestery. Afterall, the Spaniards were gabachos just like the "Americanos". Aside from extremists I've not heard resentment towards Spain.

Oso: I had to chuckle when I read you post stating that "Authorities in Mexico City saw California as an economic drain on resources."Have you been out of California lately to hear what the rest of the US is saying about it now? The more things change, the more they stay the same.

WERE SORRY, BUT CALIFORNIA IS NOW FULL! FEEL FREE TO INVADE ONE OF OUR NEIGHBORING STATES: ARIZONA, NEVADA, OREGON.

Fascinating thread. And I've just finished reading 'El complot mongol' by Rafael Bernal!!!