I was disgusted and outraged by this incident when I read about it in soccernet http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=316774&cc=5901

I also do think that many Spaniards are openly racist. (I've lived there) I also think that racism is everywhere. Racism should not be condoned under any circumstance but the way that England is taking their righteous moral high ground is wrong. Racism is taught in the home, among friends and in society. It will take the openness of some courageous people in Spain to help reverse this trend. I won't defend Spain for having racism in the modern era but it is also of note that they have not been subject to such immigration in several hundred years since the Moorish invasion. I had to explain to one of my friends why the Spanish eat so much pork. Racism spawns out of ignorance, intolerance and a general fear of the unknown. In a similar fashion, I had a Spanish student in the English class he was teaching and the student remarked that every time he passed by bernabeau he got physically sick. When he was asked why he replied," everyone in my family is an atletico supporter and my father always told me that real was to be hated."

basta ya!! a terrorismo y racismo

Quite frankly, ChrisS, your generalizations about the Spaniards are out of line. There are individuals everywhere that are racists. You are using a broad brush when you say "many Spaniards are racists." Spain does not have any more of a racial problem than any other country in the world, less than some.

Second, what is this: "I had to explain to one of my friends why the Spanish eat so much pork." What do you mean by this? Sounds like a racist generalization to me! Here in the south Sunny's bar-B-Que sells a lot of pork, are they racists because they like pork!

Third, talking about football rivalries, it certainly cannot be any worse than those here in the U.S. Let me see, the FSU Seminole fans and
the University of Florida Fans can get just as nasty, and I have heard parents say in disdain that their Gator Baby is not going to FSU!

Please, a little more civility, please.

Comments like this bother me:

Since there obviously was no provocation for a cartoon like this, it shows me that racism is running rampant in Spain, and people spend way too much time trying to say it's "okay," because Spaniards "speak their mind."

It doesn't wash on this issue, and it doesn't wash on the game in Madrid either.

Either you are or are not bigots, and as of now, one can only feel that there's enough bigotry in Spain to make it a serious problem that has to be dealt with.

Instead of making excuses for it, why not find a way to put an end to it, like you should. Until you do, you're supporting it, because you've failed to stand up against it.

Personally, I would be hard pressed to vote in favor of Spain getting the 2012 Olympics at this time. Until the nation showed they had put this kind of bigotry to rest, I would never vote for them to have such an honor.

Wolf

I don't believe that the Spanish are any more racist that anyone else although I have to agree that racial stereotypes in cartoons, on TV etc seem more acceptable there than in other countries. Who knows, one day Spain may have black players in their national side and then what will the racist fans do?

That's exactly right, Wolf. Up to now everyone has acted like ostriches and refuse to believe there is a problem and brush it off as unimportant. Today however, the Marca sports newspaper has apparently devoted four or five pages to the problem, although I haven't seen it yet.

As for England taking the righteous moral high ground being wrong ChrisS, put yourselves in the boots of the players involved the other night and ask yourself how you and your children would feel if you were humiliated by the monkey noises that taunted them throughout the whole of the game? Is it wrong to condemn that so strongly? I think not.

One thing I can't ever begin to grasp is that this abuse happens on an almost weekly basis at the ground I go to. Whenever a black player is seen as a "villain" the monkey noises come from different sections of the crowd around the stadium, not just the Ultras although it is a minority. I have a season ticket for the same seat each week and when it happens, apart from glaring at anyone who is near me and saying in loud terms that they are all ******** idiots, I feel powerless and have to confess to sticking my head in the sand too, because I know that if I was to point them out to the police I would never be able to ever take my seat there again and as I love my footie I'm not that righteous as to forego that priviledge

Anyway, that's the end of my input. Look forward to better days. Maybe this is what has been needed after all.

I'm ashamed and embarrassed. Aragones must exit the national team.
This has NEVER happened in any national team match nor any violence!
This is a sad day for Spain.
Aragones may be a decent coach, but he's stupid!
Please, try not to generalize, we are not all the same , though there IS racism in our society and it's a growing problem.
Bye, Madrid 2012. We'd better forget about it.

Fernando, I can agree with some of the things you say, but you have forgotten to mention that Aragonés, when asked about his alledged racist comment from last month by the UK press, went defensive and gave them what maybe some of them wanted exactly, to sell more papers, making matters MUCH WORSE with a totally uncalled for reference to England's "colonial history" right before Wednesday's match. That's what I call a real 'metepatas'!!! And, the thruth of the matter is, if one carelessly offends a country as a whole like he did, then is hard to blame others for generalising and calling us all racists....So this would all be yet another matter of "who started it?"

To me the saddest part is that the players towards whom the monkey noises were directed at weren't taking part in this "provocation game"....

Wolf, from my "Spanish perspective", the example of the Marca cartoon, the way you've described it, only proves yet again that Spaniards are WAY LESS politically correct than other peoples, we consider treating certain supposedly extremely touchy issues with 'naturalidad', above all, is the best policy to fight racism in this particular case. I mean, the joke could have very well been reverse; I'm no big sports reader, but I know Spanish press; portraying S. O'Neill for some reason being transformed into P. Gasol, and they would have said: "all he needs to do is use some bleach and have his hair straightened" or something similar, and that'd be all!, so it's not derogatory or meant as anything but a plain and pretty bad joke about people's actual racial traits.

Murdy, I too feel very strange, I watched the game at a bar and was totally oblivious to how the crowd was acting, totally missed it!

Agreed Pim, you are right, he made things worse.

As for having a black in our national team we have had two already (Donato, of brazilian procedence, and Benjamín).

As for the comment on Marca about Shaquille O'Neal and Pau Gasol ("All he has to do is paint himself black and inject silicone into his lips," they joked under a cartoon of Gasol.), I fail to see what's wrong with it... They are saying that Shaquille O'Neal is a superb player to which Gasol can only be compared. I think that you are so used to avoid "potentially racist" statements that you see them everywhere. If they had written "All he has to do is to put himself a pearcing and shave his head" you wouldn't have said it is a bigotry... the comment was made without intention and not implying that being black was anything to be shame of (to the contrary, in fact).

We have now more than three million inmigrants in Spain. I really think that it is better to deal with inmigration naturally than the way racial minorities are integrated in anglesaxon societies: in ghettos. You won't see racial states in any of our cities (though there are some states in which inmigrants are more common), nor will you see schools in which all the children are inmigrants.

Frankly, I think that you tend to judge us by your social standards, and yes, with a hint of disrespect and a high moral attitude.

Racial discrimination is a crime in Spain, as it is in sport events. As I have said before, attitudes like the ones we are discussing about are not acceptable (no matter they have an explanation), and sanctions should be applied against the spanish soccer team.

But deriving other consequences and judging an entire country is too much for a soccer match (in my opinion).

Fernando

Fernando, I thought we´d never agree completely on any matter, but this time I do.

But let me edit, from my point of view your last paragraph:

I saw this on another bulletin board (reached via www.guardian.co.uk)
Food for thought.