Thanks fmiketheman.

I agree that Spain is a country thet's good to live at. This is one of the points I agree with Pippo. It's good in spite of all that problems.

It's like California, you can have fun, but everything is expensive, so many people can't enjoy that fun as they like and they have to party at home or in the beach wether they like or not, and buying estate is really difficult for many. That's why it's better for fun and holidays than for living.

But it's good nevertheless, and the good is NOT by economic situation, which has improved greatly because of the effect of joining the EU and the euro afterwards (although there were some nuisances too). In the quality of life (not standard of life ) report that Pippo speaks about, we are up in the table mainly because it measures a lot of inputs like weather, environment, education, ..., that are totally or partially autonomous of government policies.

I mean, weather is a good thing in Spain, but it has always been, and will be, unless the climate changes modify it. But when we speak about the spaniards situation and problems, we can not consider that, and the list Pippo refers to includes it.

As a proof that what I said is a majoritary feeling, that is in the newspaper almost everyday, I'll include four of the seven "letters to the manager" of the 20Minutes newspaper of today (Madrid), about three different aspects of the previously spoken ( in spanish), sorry:

This girl speaks of most of what I wrote first,and her point of view is exactly the same as mine:

España va bien

Las condiciones laborales suelen ser bastante precarias: contratos temporales, jornadas muy largas... Los sueldos son ínfimos en relación al coste de los bienes de consumo. Con el euro ha subido todo. Las viviendas son prácticamente inasequibles, incluso en barrios periféricos. Esto nos lleva a ir en transporte público, en el que viajamos aglomerados y donde sufrimos huelgas, retrasos... Las carreteras en buenas condiciones y sin atascos son de pago. A la enseñanza pública se la ha olvidado. Las guarderías son caras y no se puede dejar a un niño pequeño diez horas en ella (lo que dura cualquier jornada laboral). La Policía está más preocupada por recaudar fondos con multas que por mejorar la seguridad ciudadana. Los empresarios cada vez abusan más, tanto de inmigrantes como de españoles.

Y se nos dice por televisión que España va bien. Lo que no dicen es que sólo para los que tienen dinero. Gema González | 23 años.


This other complains about problems in the jobs market, with the exams to become civil servant, denouncing illegalities (doesn't say that there is "tongo", but many others do):

Oposiciones de 2001

Tenía entendido que quien hace algo ilegal paga, ¿no? Pues tengo entendido que no es legal sacar una oferta de empleo público y convocar la oposición pasado un año. Llevamos desde 2001 esperando a que los responsables que ofertaron empleo público para educadores de disminuidos psíquicos en la Comunidad de Madrid saquen la dichosa convocatoria. ¿Por esta ilegalidad alguien paga algo? Se ha quedado anticuado hasta el término disminuido, hoy hablamos de personas con discapacidad. Estamos hartos/as de esperar. S.R.C.



Speaking of medical atention by Seguridad Social:

Ginecólogo a 600 días

Habéis publicado que el tiempo medio de espera en las consultas de ginecología es de 240 días. ¿En estos días también contáis los que pasan desde que tu médico decide que tienes que ir al especialista hasta que te dan la cita?

Lo digo por mi caso. En febrero, mi médico me mandó a la consulta de ginecología de la Clínica de la Concepción, y la cita me la han dado hace unos días. En total, 7 meses, unos 210 días, que sumados a que la cita me la han dado para octubre del año que viene son casi 600 días. Además, mi consulta es para un posible caso de esterilidad y tengo 35 años. La sanidad pública funciona muy bien, sobre todo para quien no necesite usarla. A. López.


This girl had been working for more than ten years at a Town Hall installations and has an excellent CV, but it has just been sacked just after going to the recent ellections in the loser party :

Monitora y candidata

Soy monitora de aerobic, con titulación en diversas modalidades y más de 15 años de experiencia; los últimos cuatro, en Serranillos del Valle, 2.700 habitantes, a 10 km de Fuenlabrada.

Quisiera dar las gracias a la alcaldesa y a la Concejalía de Deportes, sin olvidarme de los técnicos deportivos subcontratados por el municipio, por el respeto y buena voluntad mostrados tras las pasadas elecciones municipales no dándome ninguna oportunidad de seguir ejerciendo otra temporada más mi trabajo por no cumplir el 'perfil laboral', según ellos. Y todo ello, a pesar de realizar un trabajo correcto, digno y apreciado por los alumnos, incluidas las clases sin cobrar a la tercera edad.

Y simplemente por haberme presentado las pasadas municipales en la lista electoral de la oposición. Elena Villa García | 39 años. Serranillos del Valle


You can see all the letters here
Online free newspaper, leader in readers in Madrid and Barcelona

Well the only thing I can comment on is the unemployment situation. I have firsthand experience with that being that my gf is a Spaniard.

I cannot tell you how many horror stories she has told me regarding employment/unemployment.

Most of the jobs offered to her and her friends (all college graduates) are only for 3 month periods with no promise of full-time afterwards.

They even have to lie and say they're still in school so the company can hire them. This way the company will pay them less than what they would have to pay them if they were graduates.

Just examples.

Mike

http://www.democracianacional.org/videos/a3tv/cortef.wmv you guys sould wach this video pretty interesting.

A few of the previous posts mentioned housing prices. Here is a link with housing prices in Spain from the previous trimester.

http://www.ibercity.com/housingprices.html

I wish I had the funds to buy apartments in Extremadura now. In my opinion over the next few years those prices are going to go up big time.

You probably say this because Extremadura is the cheaper price in the list. However, the reason because it is the cheaper is not just because.

The reason is because it's an underdeveloped region, with no tourist industry or tourism attractives except some valleys with special climates and a couple of roman ruins.

You could be right that prices will go up there, since they are so cheap in comparison, but I doubt it. There is not, and probably there will not be, a great demand.

No, I say it becasue I know Extremadura very well, its land and its people. The government is doing quite a bit to attract business there by offering grant and subsidy programs. As does Murcia, La Rioja etc.

Would you rather invest now while the region is underdeveloped or later when its developed?

http://www.sofiex.es/ingles/index.html

http://www.sofiex.es/espanol/indexfomb.html

http://www.juntaex.es

Excellent thread! Gracias Pippo and Ignacio for explaining the complexity of the problems.

Recently my uncle visited the farm where my grandfather was born in Aviles to attend my cousin's wedding. My cousin and her fiance waited eleven years to get married, because they wanted to have their own house in Oviedo, where they both work. It took them that long to save enough to buy a very modest two bedroom flat.

Eleven years!

Hello BookLady , Like I said before , I think Spain it.s a very , very , very complex country , and his problems ( and his good things) are not very known , probably by the periferic role developed by Spain since 1818 in Europe.

I think there.s some things that people must know about Spain , good and bad things:

1.- WEDDING:

Spain is the Occidental country where more older get married people. 30.5 ( men), 27.6 ( women).
The reasons are :

a) Price of flats , very highs , ( but in my opinion this is no the basic causa)
If that was the fundamental causa the richest people would get married younger than middle-class and that not happen .

b)Behaviour of young people:
In Spain people like to have a very extended " adolescense" , youngmen go to party untill 8 o.clock and they do that untill 30 years old ( a lot of times older ) , matbe some people couyld thind that is not a reason , But I think it is. In other post I will explain why.

c) Culture:
Spain a Latin country , and like Italy or Portugal we have a very strong sense of family , and mother .

2.- DEMOGRAPHY:

Spain is the 2 Country in woprls where people have less babies ( Italy is the first).
That thing is relationed with before.
Is this because there.s some economic causa??

I think no:
a.- The quality of life in Spain have grown up since sixties without stop but natality have go down.

b.- The reason is : Comodity .

3.-SPAIN HAVE THE GREATEST PERCENTAGE OF OCCIDENTAL WORLS OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE THEIR OWN HOUSE OR FLAT:
91%.
That means great prices ( one of the REASONS NOT THE ONLY). In Spain is a shame that a person could not buy his own house.

4.- SPAIN HAS NO GROUP CONSCIENSE:

Here I.m gonna put a article of El Pais Newspaper , it.s in Spanish ,sorry, but I think it.s very CLARIFICADOR.

" A la pregunta de con que nacionalidad se identificaba mas si la española , la autonomica o la Europea el 32.5 por cien de los encuestados respondieron Española , un 20.9 por cien Europea , un 20.1 respondio con la de su autonomía respectiva , un 19.9 respondio todas y un 6.6 dio respuestas varias.
A la pregunta de cual era su raza ( pregunta hecha a hombres y mujeres nacidos en España y de padres españoles) el 36% respondio mediterranea , el 30% caucasica , el 24 % latina y el 10% hispana . A la pregunta de que naciones cree que son mas similares a España las respuestas fueron:
38.1% Italia , 20.8 Portugal , 19.2 Argentina , 15.5 Europa en su conjunto y 6.4 Latinoamerica en su conjunto "
If you take this opinions and think about it you must extract a lot of conclusions about the group conscience ....more and more if yoy knows that 25% of spaniards citizens
speak frecuently other spaniard language different than castillian.

5.- TOURISM

Spain is the Second turist market of world ( France is the First ) . more than 60 millions of persons visit Spain each year.

6.- INVESTIGATION AND TECHNOLOGY:

Spain is one of the countris that less invert in i+D in the first worls and that.s the great problem of the economy for stop the inflation ( 3% per year)

7.- SPAIN IS THE COUNTRY OF FIRST WORLD WITH LESS PERCENTAGE OF NO TEMPORAL WORK CONTRATS :
Only 9% , that was consecuence os the 70 and 80ties workin politic ............in other topic I will explain the reason ( LAS GRANDES INDEMNIZACIONES QUE DEBIAN PAGARSE A LOS TRABAJADORES FIJOS SI ERAN DESPEDIDOS , ALRREDEDOR DE 5 MILLONES DE MEDIA y PUDIENDE LLEGAR A 7 , 8 y MILLONES).

Well this will continue tomorrow....

( sorry for my horrible english , I know I must improve it)

for any one that says excuse my english ,i reply your english is very good (note that i reply in english my spanish is poor).I read these posts with interest but have little knowledge about politics (english or spanish)my husband says that i live in my little way where world events pass me by,its true.I go to Spain every year sometimes 2 or 3 times no im not rich but i get some great deals.I love cities and holiday resorts and i have a couple of questions? i got back from torremolinos yesterday,by my hotel there was a busy road,about 6pm there was a lot of noise cars using horns to the extreme, i went to investigate,a bus was dropping off people at the top of the road but people were using the horns at the bottom of the road they could not see what was the problem so why all the noise?what does this achieve .Also hotel waiters what hours do they work, ours always seemed to be their,is their pay still poor,they always appear happy and work so hard im curious

Pippo:

I grow weary of correcting your biased information. I don't have time for answering your messages the way you deserve. I´ll put this link so that people can see the evolution salaries-cost of living in the last 20 years:

(In spanish sorry)

Salaries multiplied by 2,44, estate by 5,92. 'nuff said.