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#54343 - 10/02/03 10:34 AM please tell me about spains problems
fmiketheman Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 317
Loc: ny,ny
hey everybody

first of all im not being pessimistic about spain because i love spain and think its great there.

but im sure spain is not perfect and that it has its problems.

i recognize the unemployment and eta problems, some inflation problems.

are there any more society problems in spain.if so can anybody inform me on them.

thank you
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#54344 - 10/02/03 10:45 AM Re: please tell me about spains problems
Miguelito Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/01
Posts: 603
I think that now the biggest problems are the price of the houses, and the degradation in public Health Insurance and in Education.
Although there's a problem with corruption, lack of civism, etc.. but I think this are general in all the world.

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#54345 - 10/02/03 11:00 AM Re: please tell me about spains problems
fmiketheman Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 317
Loc: ny,ny
hey everybody

thanks miguelito

is there anymore or is that it?

from the other miguelito laugh cool
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#54346 - 10/02/03 11:30 AM Re: please tell me about spains problems
deibid Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 10/02/03
Posts: 345
Loc: Colmenar Viejo, Madrid
Well,TRAFFIC.
Specially around Madrid. Last Tuesday morning we had 120 accidents in the Madrid area. 120!!!
It was the first rainy day after 4 months, and the city went mad.
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#54347 - 10/02/03 12:07 PM Re: please tell me about spains problems
MadridMan Offline


Executive Member

Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 9080
Loc: Madrid, Spain (was Columbus, O...
It seems that Spain is constantly in a fresh-water/drinking-water shortage. Is this correct, Spaniards? (et. al.)
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#54348 - 10/02/03 12:21 PM Re: please tell me about spains problems
deibid Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 10/02/03
Posts: 345
Loc: Colmenar Viejo, Madrid
Not constantly. There are parts that have BIG problems: the south east and Canary Islands.
Central Spain, including Madrid, suffers droughts from time to time, the last one was severe and lasted from 1994 to 1997.
The last 5 years have been wet around Madrid, and right now the season has changed and it's raining A LOT.
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#54349 - 10/02/03 07:06 PM Re: please tell me about spains problems
pippo Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/03
Posts: 95
Loc: tarraco
Fmiketheman , I think that the real problems of Spain are:

1.- The price of flats and houses.
Spain is the european country where more have been grow up the prices.

2.- The lack of inversions in investigation and digital technology.

3.-Inflation . 4th in EU.

4.- Corruption :
Spain is the 5th country more corrupted of first world , only Italy , Japan , Greece and Ireland are worse.

5.- The independentist problem.

6.- Unemmployement:

In Spain 9.8% of people is unemployed . EU 6.5
USA 6.3%.

THOSE ARE NOT REAL PROBLEMS OF SPAIN , ONLY TOPICS:

7.- The Differences of richness beetween aurtonomies:
If the money that earns a person in the EU per year was 100
in Madrid is 104 , in Catalunya 105 , but in Andalucia is 54 , in Extremadura 51 .
1.- ETA .
ETA only kill 3, 4 persons at year ( that.s horrible) but in USA , Ireland , France , Indondesia , Turkey , Russia .........have been more terrorist attacks.

2.- Spaniards are Lazies:
Only Japanese and people from USA work more hours than spaniars in all hole world.

3.-Violence :
Spain is one of the most safetly places of Europe , as a USA friend of mine say:
" In Spain I never feel phisyc danger....but pickpockets...."

Well finally I must say that Spain will become the Florida of the EU , ( I hope become the "Calofornia")...
Spain have grow up about 3% per year in last 7 and rest of EU 1.5% that means Spain will have the same richness than France in 7 or 8 years....

Well sorry for my horible english .....

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#54350 - 10/03/03 05:56 AM Re: please tell me about spains problems
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would say:

1-Political Corruption (worsens all the following) besides corrupting all areas of the country: judicial, administrative, ..., in the high levels. Fortunately the average spanish person is pretty honest in spite of this, else, this would be caos.

2- Housing: The Big Problem. For the salary level, it's extraordinarily high the cost of rent or the price of a flat.

Politicians make bussiness with their partners in the building and state sector, Town Councils get money from land speculation that they throw away because they are very inefficient and have no control, and statistics controlled by Government hide it: Not included in Prices statistics. Thus, if "inflation" is being these days a 2-4%, only by including this lacking data would take inflation to well over 7%. As inflation is used by labour Unions to claim for raises, salaries have been growing about 2,5 to 4,5% for many years while housing is growing over 10% each year, impoverishing population at an amazing speed.

There have been statistics in the media reflecting how our housing prices have rocketed, being close to the european average, while we earn about a 40%-50% of their salaries. Also, the percentage of effort one has to do to buy a small flat (almost the same to rent it) is well over 50% of a couple's combined salaries. And this, only because interest rates are earth low, else it would be much more!

3-False! Unemployment is not a real problem, in despite of statistics. 99% of the people have a work if they want to.

So, why are the statistics like that, and what's the real problem?

-Statistics: Because many people work under the table because they prefer to keep on having their miserable unemployment help to complement their miserable wages.
And because many times employers don't offer a contract: "Under the table or nothing".

-So, what we don't have is an unemployment crisis, we have an income crisis, because people work but work for peanuts (because they have no other chance). This is a wonderful country (good climate, fun, ...) if you can skip misery! So the REAL problem is:

4- Rubbish-contracts or under the table hirings that make people work for amounts that don't let them leave their parents', or have a family, much less buy a "cheap" flat. People DO work, but many times what they get is spent in transport, lodging and meals out (no time to go back home many times outside the city), ... Sometimes I wonder why they do (some don't, prefer study or try to improve their skills in some way while they wait for a job that is paid enough to cover the bills. Some study for years at their parents 12/14 hours a day to become a public servant (many times 30+ persons for a position, sometimes 300).

These people work mainly because they have faint hopes of improving in the long run in the firm or acquire experience for leaving to a better position, that don't use to come out. They work also because they don't want to be unemployed or an eternal student.

5-Cities are becoming unhabitable: It's true that Madrid has much less population and cars than, for example, New York, but the way it's organized and the bad design of the scarce infrastructures we have make driving a hell.

Plus, the bonus-malus insurance system is another corrupt system, because nobody acknowledges their fault in the frequent crashes or parking bumps because they would lose the discount in the fee. SO insurances charge you lots of money with small responsabilities. Only big accidents, where they can not run away, because if somebody hits your car, he leaves and if you see it he wont accept his responsability, people will not want to act as witnesses, and you are f*cked.

Underground and buses are always crowded, some lines (in Madrid specially 5) have frequent breakdowns, or delays, and are pretty slow.

Due to housing costs many people has to live outside the big cities (to save a little, almost as expensive as the other option), which is a real problem because of dayly hour's long traffic jams and deficient bus service.

And so on. Good for fun, bad for living.

6-Degradation of Public Services: PP has destroyed a Health system that even Ms. Clinton evaluated to export to the USA. Now, they multiplied the people they have to attend by hosting millions of inmigrants with the same installations. In Madrid, 4.000.000 people have received about 1.000.000 inmigrants in about 8 years, but no more doctors or hospitals. They "solve" this problem (apparently) by paying Government friends expensive private hospitals to take care of some of the work. Our money thrown away with their friends!

Or you can buy a private policy with their friend's insurance companies if you want to have proper asistance. Going backwards!

But the worst is for that poor people who can't pay this and go to the doctor and they give you (recent cases in the newspapers, and they are not exceptions by any means):

-One year for a gincologic revision if there is any problem.

-Six months or more for a revision on possible cancer cases (many times by then you're dead).

And so on

******

Inflation (acording tostatistics) is not a problem. 4% is nothing. But the real one (7-10%) IS a real problem, specially because salaries are somehow indiciated with "statistical inflation".

*****

Independentism is not a problem. It's just a political option. It's only a problem (an ethical problem) for those who oppose to a people's will.

*****

Once again, the differences you refer, Pippo, are only the half-truths (the worse lies) that the media filter:

Madrid 104, Extremadura 51, OK, however, an equivalent flat in Extremadura is less than 50% the price in Madrid. The same applies to most things: foor, transportation, ... Doesn't apply only to country prices (like energy or phone cost) or international prices, and these are a samll percentage of the monthly expenses of a family. Thus, a person living in Extremadura earning half that a madrileño earns is, however, richer. funny, no?

Besides, if yo refer to the AVERAGE EU income, then take into account that the income obtained in the richer regions of the country is scarcely above of the EU average. If you went to Antibbes in France, don't you think there people get Paris' salaries. About the half? rolleyes

*****

ETA and the Spanish Government. Both are to blame for the actual situation. 'nuff said.

*****

Droughts: They wouldn't be a real problem, if water wasn't spilled freely. We have momre water than necessary, however, if we use natural water (not recycled water) for indutrial purposes or agriculture, if we want to convert Murcia and Valencia in the garden of Europe (one thing is that they are extremely good lands for fruits and vegetables, and other that hundreds of thousands of tons have to be trasferred to keep this garden alive, stealing it to other (by the way, underdeveloped by lack of government help, unlike M. and V.) and paying for this unafordable expenditure ALL the spanish, so that they can have water at a ridiculous price, muche less that a tenth of the regular price. Lets have those farms but only those that can live without these water subventions!

The same applies to Golf courses in Almeria and other regions, taht demand enormous amounts of water because... They are in deserts! Believe it or not. All the year water is poured in these desertic areas for tourists to have a golf course. D*mmit.

80%-90% of the water spent in the country is for agriculture and industry's unefficient production. I laugh at the Government's advices that citizens save water, and spend even more. Why they don't begin by themselves and their industrial tycoon and farmers voters first?

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#54351 - 10/03/03 05:59 AM Re: please tell me about spains problems
El Boqueron Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/00
Posts: 421
Loc: UK
I would say Spain has a specific problem with roads/driving styles. The number of people killed each year in road accidents is incredible. In just July and August this year (the holiday months) nearly 900 people were killed! (that's DIED, God knows how many more were seriously injured). If this kind of death toll occurred for any other reason (plane/train accidents, terrorism, disease, you name it)the country would come to a halt, a state of emergency would be declared. But it's the just the roads, it merits 5 minutes discussion on a "tertulia" program and that's the end of it.

Obviously, other countries suffer road accidents but the rate in Spain (e.g deaths per million kilometers travelled) is amongst the highest - e.g.,4 times higher than that in the UK (a much more densely populated country).

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#54352 - 10/03/03 09:01 AM Re: please tell me about spains problems
pippo Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/03
Posts: 95
Loc: tarraco
I.m gonna put this replay in spanish cause my english don.t let me explain exactly like I want.
Sorry if someone don.t understand it.

IGNACIO:

1.- La corrupcion en España no esta extendida a todos los ambitos de la estructura del pais , de hecho nuestro sistema judicial no es ni mucho menos mas corrupto que el estadounidense o el frances ( y si quieres entramos en datos concretos para demostrartelo), otra cosa es que sean ineficientes o esten mal dotados ( tema aparte).
La verdadera corrupcion en España se centra al 90%
( y se de lo que estoy hablando) en la adquisicion del suelo via ayuntamiento por parte de los empresarios y en la adjudicacion de obras publicas ( previo pago de mordida).
El problema se solucionaria rapido prohibiendo constitucionalmente que los ayuntamientos pudieran disponer del suelo a su libre antojo y negandoles la `posibilidad de que su presupuesto supere sus ingresos ...( hay ciertos casos flagrantes donde alcaldes de poblaciones de tamaño mediano han dejado una deuda ignominiosa bloqueando el futuro del pueblo).

2.- El problema del precio de la vivienda:

Tiene 3 partes:

a) Como los ayuntamientos se financian a traves del suelo ponen este a subasta lo cual encarece el precio ( a lo que hay que sumar la comision para el concejal de turno). De tal modo no les interesa hacer viviendas de proteccion oficial porque el precio del suelo que ellos mismos venden bajaria.

b) España es un pais en el que casi la totalidad de sus ciudadanos quieren ser propietarios.
( esto no ucurre en el resto de Europa).

c) En España existe la legislacion mas agresiva para el arrendador de todo el mundo , con lo que sumado a la lentitud de la justicia hace que la mayoria de propietarios se nieguen a alquilar lo que provoca que el precio suba al haber menos oferta.
Ante un alquiler elevado al ciudadano le compensa comprar .........con lo cual es un circulo vicioso.

3.- Desempleo :
El para es un problema REAL , tal vez un madrileño pueda tener un trabajo mal pagado de peon , pero un asturiano lo tiene dificil , no digamos un leones o alguien que viva en Jaen .
Eso se solucionaria rapido favoreciendo ( como SE HACE EN CUALQUIER OTRO PAIS LA MOVILIDAD LA BORAL pero como existe el problema de la vivienda tampoco puede conseguirse)
Lo de los contratos basura si que es un mito ( al menos poniendolo en un contexto internacional) , yo aconsejo a todo el mundo a que se de un viaje por USA ( donde te dan la patada y te callas , Irlanda donde te putean hasta la ignominia , etc...)
Si de verdad queremos compararnos a paises donde hay una buena proteccion laboral ( como los nordicos) deberemos empezar borrando del mapa las altas indemnizaciones que se pagan por despido a los trabajadores fijos ( antes 45 dias por año y ahora 33 frente a los 20 de media Europea).
Conozco pequeños empresarios que hace años antes de que se iniciaran los contratos basura se arruinaron al despedir a uno de sus trabajadores.
Ante el peligro de tener q pagar 8 millones si despides a alguien un empresario no contratara a nadie si hay un aumento de la demanda ya q cuando baje no podra despedirle de forma economica con lo cual la economia se resiente porque no se expande en los picos , que ocurre entonces:
Se hace un contrato basura.

4.- El sistema de salud publico:
Es uno de los mas baratos y eficientes del mundo.
En España cualquier modesto trabajador tiene acceso a los mejores tratamientos ante las enfermedades . Y si esta es importante TE ASEGURO que no haces cola.
Es cierto , eso si , que debido a la masificacion , en caso de ser una enfermedad leve has de pasar una larga espera , pero no es menos cierto que cualquier ciudadano estadounidense parado se daria con un canto en los dientes por tener un seguro q le cubra tan universalmente.
Si creemos que el sistema de salud español no es bueno , comparemoslo con el ingles.

5.- El independentismo SI es un problema:

Y lo es porque nunca acepta una votacion democratica a menos que apoye sus intereses ......
¿ se detuvo en Quebec cuando los ciudadanos dijeron que querian continuar siendo Canadienses ?? No , no se hizo , en menos de 15 años obligaron a hacer 3 consultas.

En caso de hacerla y salir si a la independencia inyectarian dinero en Navarra constantemente para anexionarsela ESTO ES UN HECHO.
Dar esa opcion a Euzkadi daria la oportunidad a Catalunya Y YO ASEGURO q una Euzkadi independiente no afectaria demasiado a ESpaña pero una CATALUNYA SI . españa se vendria abajo y si quieres te lo demuestro.

Si que hay diferencias de riqueza entre Madrid y extremadura , y las hay porque en Madrid los precios solo son un 8% mas caros ( he estdo en las dos comunidades y no es tan barata extremadura excepto los pisos). Mientras q el sueldo es un 100% superior en Madrid.
Multiplica esa difrencia de sueldo por la diferncia de precio de un piso y observaras q en Madrid hay mas riqueza.

Como resumen:

Segun la ONU España es el 9 pais del mundo en calidad de vida

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