Chica,

Thanks for such a good response. Many people want to carry their concerns about racism to other countries, and I guess that that's to be expected. I just don't do that. Everyone's experience in a country is very PERSONAL, with their experience being UNIQUE.

Shawn

hello everybody

chica
yes very true what youre saying.

by the way, im curious to know how you recieve telemadrid,being in castillayleon.i understand only madrid PROVENCE gets that channel.
i get tve on satalite tv which i would rate from 1-10 a 6 but thats because i have a special cable service.
in spain it isnt like that.
i bet you have tv segovia from tv castillayleon.
i rate this channel as 7.
not to criticize spanish tele but herein the us we have a bunch of crappy programming as well.
its just that spain has few channels(according to location of course)
saludos

for Sredw,
Its not about carrying racism to other countries but I will be in a country for 3 months alone and unfamiliar with customs there, if there is something someone can give me the heads up on I want it.

Madridman wrote:
I cannot agree with this statement enough. In the States, we are pampered more than you can imagine by high levels of customer service, and "politically correct" ways of saying things that sometimes come off as patronizing.

As Fernando stated, Spaniards are much more natural (read: direct) about many issues that in the USA people would trip over with care.

In my English classes, I have found that my students have a genuine interest in the "real" America. What is life like for a minority in the States, etc. I delight in sharing my personal experiences with my classes, by my experiences are just that, PERSONAL.

Everyone has a different reaction to the way they are treated and their expectations of being treated as such. Princess, I think you have a very good attitude about wanting to be informed about a different culture, etc. I have seen too many "ugly Americans" here get indignant when they aren´t treated in the way they feel entitled (meaning, not realizing that different cultures have different ways of acting). I hope you have a great and enriching trip here!

P.S. Miketheman, I can get Telemadrid without a problem as well as the TV programs from Castilla-Leon as we live practically on the border of Comunidad de Madrid and Castilla-Leon.

hey everybody

chica

oooohhhhh now i know.
yeah to think of it segovia is very near madrid provence.thanks for letting me know.

Atrixo wrote:

“will a good-looking black American guy be able to meet girls to talk and dance with and ultimately hook up with?”

Well, all I have to say to that is: good-looking IS good-looking.

While I totally agree with Fernando's and Chica's comments on the more natural attitude Spaniards have towards many things, I'm not that sure this topic is precisely a good example of that. Surely we are less politically correct about it, for instance, people here will call black people blacks ("negros/as'), and VERY rarely coloured ("de color'), or African-Americans ("afroamericanos'), etc….; without any "miramiento', but because we don't see anything wrong with saying somebody is black if we do say another person is white, they're both just two colours, AND two easily understandable terms, so frankly, I believe the other terms above, here, sort of sound artificial* and almost euphemistic to most people.
But what I'm trying to get at, is that I think it might be a little bit contradictory to say that in a country where black people are definitely not the norm, and where actually, up until quite recently, their presence was very rare (it still is in small towns), (growing up, in my school in Zaragoza they were only two black kids, and we must have been around 1800-2000 students, that sort of thing); which always entails people being curious toward that minority that's somehow different from us and from what we've always been accustomed to (let's not forget, curiosity is part of the human condition); we react, behave, etc…, in a more natural manner, or just as naturally, as they do in other countries where the interaction with blacks, or people of mixed race is much more common, an everyday thing.
Just a thought.

Now, does racism exist in this country? I say, absolutely yes. Specially, since in my book, racism occurs not only whenever someone treats somebody from another ethnicity badly (or worse), but everytime one looks at, speaks to, considers, judges,…whatever, you name it, DIFFERENTLY, than one would a person of one's own race. So, to give an example, if I may indeed glance at a mixed couple in the street, I am being racist, I'm guilty of it, but I'm also aware of that, and try to fix it, no doubt! (Mmm,….I have black acquaintances that might stare too! )

And, to the question; does classism exist in Spain?, my answer is definitely YES, but I also believe, that is an absolutely widespread big FLAW of every society that's ever existed. Of course, there are places in which this is less noticeable than in Spain, and other places where it's much worse as well (the larger the section of “middle class citizens”, the better; in nations in which there is a small, high class that rolls in money, and pretty much the rest suffer hardships,….imagine! :o )
But it is true that in many cases, if you mix both the race and class (gender and general appearance are a factor too) "variables', you get a very different treatment from folks!

*Artificial, is also how I think most Spaniards see the "American-type-service" (overly "caring"! ) that you get in the States or in American chain restaurants/eateries here. Although I'm one of those who would like to see the level of costumer service "mentality" in my country improve quite a lot. After all, we're close, but this is not France, so, rude ain't chic, right? :p

Hi Princess, Im new to this board so I don't know many people yet. Regarding your concerns about racism is only natural. We live in a country where race can be an issue. I have many friends who are black and work with many African-Americans. Every one of them that have visited Spain has told me the exact same thing...they LOVED IT! A close friend of mine is from Jamaica and he visited Spain for a month traveling throughout the country. He said all the people he visited were gracious and friendly and never encountered anyone that treated him disrespectfuly. Of course a woman traveling alone to a foreign country would want to be careful not to be vulnerable. There's not a country in the world where mean people don't live. Be more concerned with what you would be missing out and enjoy your trip!

I completely agree with Pim, but to clarify the point:

Does racism exists in Spain? Yes (as Pim said)
Is Spain a racist country? Absolutely no.

As any other country, we have a small minority of racists, usually extreme-righists. We have also some costumes that would seem racist (or that they are) to americans.

In Spain discrimination by race or ethnia is punished by law, and it is also reckoned by our Constitution. I would say that more than 99% of the spaniards you may encounter in your trips will try to be kind and respectful (even more) if you are a black american.

Anyway, if you meet someone rude or unpolite just ignore him/her and don't let him/her ruin your trip

Fernando

Thanks Fernando. You make some great points. I agree that racism exists and that doesn't mean Spain is a racist country. Two situations come to mind. First, an African-American woman classmate of mine told me that she was with her boyfriend in a bar. The boyfriend is Puerto Rican and Dutch, so they assumed that the bar patrons did not understand that he was a Spanish speaker. The other patrons made very derogatory remarks about the mixed racial couple. Are they a bunch of red-neck jerks in an otherwise inclusive society? Sure, I believe that. But racism, while not prevelant, does exist. (By the way, my classmate is in the process of becoming a legal resident of Spain, so I would assume the situation can't be that bad.)

Second, at the Spanish colegio our 4 year-old son attended in Sevilla, he was to play the part of a black page in the Christmas pageant. His teacher told us that he had to paint his face black for the part. We explained that in our culture this would be perceived badly and requested that our son take a different part. They were very gracious and accomodating. However, the director explained to us that in Spain, they don't have such problems because all people are treated equally. I wonder if the African immigrants selling tissues at traffic intersections would agree. My point is that with the burgeoning immigrant population and the historic lack of racial diversity, many Spaniards are not self-aware enough to recognize discrimination in their own society.

I couldn't agree more

Sometimes people is not aware on how insulting some of our ways of being can be, but also because, in general, people is not bad intentioned. Spaniards tend to be quite natural dealing with forgeiners, and that may be perceived as rudeness.

Let me tell you an anechdote. Though I had heard all my life "chistes" about blacks in Spain, I had never seen in my whole life treating a black bad (that is, with any difference from a spaniard), nor I had seen my family speaking in a racist manner.

When I went to the States (being 16 years-old) I heard something that annoyed and sickened me... I was with a friend of my host mother on 4th of July, watching fireworks near Washington DC. This woman pointed a black family and told me "See these people? Don't call them niggers, they would get upset" (she said it ironicly, with a smile in her face). I had never heard the word before, nor did I care about it (though the woman thought it was something I should know). I had been two weeks and I was already used to see blacks with much more frequency than in Spain, to the point that I wasn't aware of their presence... until that stupid woman call my attention.

I've yet to see in person something as sickening (or just half as sickening) in Spain.

Fernando