Does any one know how many people speak "vascence" ? Curious and also was speaking about this in my class and didn't really know...Gracias

According to the basque autonomous government about 680,000 people can speak basque ("vascuence" in spanish, "euskera" or "euskara" in basque) or any of its dialects (the basque language is quite fragmented). 85% of those basque speakers are in the Basque Country, and the rest in Navarre and the french basque territories.

Almost all the basque speakers speak spanish too.

Fernando

Gracias Fernando...I knew someone would know that information here on the message board. Now I will be prepared for my class...

Don't forget the euskaldunak here in the US. The diaspora of Basques from all the provinces, mostly in the first half of the 20th-century, brought many Basques to the states. Estimates put the number of Basque-language speakers in the US at no less than 50.000.

hello everybody

hey and dont forget the euzkaldunik in various latin american countrys such as chile and argentina and several others.also i must point out there are basques in the u.s who are not the "basque colony of america" there are also some basques here in new york. i have a basquito freind who lives a couple of blocks from me.

About 2% of Spains population speaks Basque just thought id throw in that fact. I believe people sould have the right to speak Catalan,Galicain,Basque etc. But I don't believe they sould have any official value in other words Spains castillan is the master langauge used by over 300,000,000 people therefore its obviously alot more usefull then Basque Catalan and Galicains. Which in comparison to Spaish (Castillan) it is a meer joke of a langauge when talking about the amount of people that speak it.

Why considering one spanish language against another?

In my opinion the language richness of Spain is incredible, and it would be horrible if we lost some of our languages in favor of others. Catalonian, basque, galaecian, valencian, castilian,... all are spanish languages and their use should be encouraged.

But, no matter how I like the language diversity of my country, I believe that every spaniard has the right and the obligation to speak spanish. I also think that the politic use that nationalist countries are doing with these language is stupid. In some places they are trying to annihilate spanish to impose people to speak the regional language.

Fernando

i think that trying to promote and improve the seconds language(basque galician catalan etc) in spain is a great idea , and i dont think that this will `anilihhate `the spasnish language like you said, since spanish is verry strong and the main language of spain, and the others are verry `weak` (not a lot of people are talking it, mostly the old people too, verry regional language...) from what i saw only the catalan was seeming verry alive and widely spoken, but most of the people are perfect bilingual.

heyeveryboy

janlo

galego too conho.not just catalan is so widely spoken also galego(galeginho i call it at home)i mean all the galician people speak sometimes mixing spanish use but still everybdy understands it and speaks it just like in catalunya.now the basques are adly the ones who have it tougher with there regional language.over there it seems alot of people dont know **** about there regional language.thats sad hombre.but in GALICIA and in cataluna its different fortunly.

Janlo agreed! I'm not saying that promoting the other languages will eliminate spanish. What I'm saying is that sometimes the regional governments (which have all competences in education and language matters) seem to believe that promoting the regional language automaticly means trying to destroy spanish. The knowledge of all the languages should be encouraged.

Fernando

For as much as the Basque government pushes it, Basque isn´t going to take over in the Basque Country in the near future, if ever. It´s very difficult to learn as it is so different.

Quintos233,
I believe people sould have the right to speak Spanish. But I don't believe they sould have any official value in other words English is the master langauge used by over 514,000,000 people, it is the dominant language in finance, IT and aviation, and it is the official language in more countries than any other, therefore its obviously alot more usefull then Spanish. Which in comparison to English it is a meer joke of a langauge when talking about the amount of people that speak it.

Yes you are correct more people do speak English than Spanish but the 300,000,000 amount of people speaking Spanish is not some thing to be ignored besides that is just the official number of Spanish speakers im sure theres anothere 60,000,000 in the US and else where. The reason english is the master language is because of the US super power status but as with every other empire and super power eventually it will dwindle I wouldn't wait in wet cement for it to happen but it will what goes up must come down. Further more 300,000,000 amount of Spanish speakers was from about 2 yrs. ago thus the amount of Spanish speakers has probably grown exponentially. Spanish is obviously important even when compared the Anglo Saxon mumbo jumbo known as English which is a language with almost no common grammar rules since many signs are posted both in and English and Spanish in some parts of the US and the fact that Spanish is taught in most schools in the south west therefore it obviously has some importance even when compared to English.

Quintos,

If that was the case, Chinese would end up the official language, with over a billion people speaking it as a native language.

What stops Chinese and Japanese from becoming more of an impact is the fact that they don't use conventional alphabets. Since English itself is the predominant language of business, it's hardly likely we'll see Spanish become the bigger impact language. For a lot of the world, knowing english is enough, wherein many countries have reluctantly admitted that they have to speak english because of the business world. Such has been the case in the vast majority of Europe, where english has become a reluctant second language of need, no matter what your native language may be.

Although Spanish is deeply rooted in so many countries, I don't see it becoming the predominant language of the world. As for english losing ground, I don't see that in the future, unless the business centers of the world end up in Spanish speaking nations, and that's a reach to even consider it happening, during the 21st century, and probably beyond, because of the vast number of people who would have to start all over again, with another language.

Basque may not be spoken by a great number of people, but one should realize that it's actually rebounding. While Franco was alive, Euskara was pretty well outlawed. Now it's being serviced by scholars, who are dealing with adding new words as the need arises, and the language is beginning to be spoken more in the Basque region of Spain. My guess is, if anything, the number of people who will be able to speak Euskara will continue to climb, and eventually be stronger than it has been for over half a century.

Calibasco can tell you more about this, since he knows the roots of Euskara much better than I.

Agur!

Wolf

I fully agree with Wolf. The number of speakers is not an argument to let a language die Quintos.

Spanish is quite used (it has reachen recently to 400 million people) but there are other languages much more used. Besides, it is absurd to think of a one widely used language imposed over the thousands of languages that exist.

Would you really like Spain to loose its cultural richness by having only one language? From my point of view, basque or galaecian are as spanish as castilian.

Fernando

Quintos: "Spanish is taught in most schools in the southwest"... To what are you referring? Spanish is also taught in "most schools" around the country. If you're referring to bilingual education, the program that wasn't working, there are no longer any state mandates to teach students in whatever native language they have [usually Spanish]. English is the main language, and the language of core instruction. We voted bilingual ed out months ago.

Roe: Basque won't ever again enjoy the dominance in Euskadi that it once did. This is not due to whether the autonomous government pushes it or not, it simply has to do with the dilution of the Basque population living in Euskadi. Basque will continue to be taught and learned by those whose parents are vascohablantes, but once you get a Basque who marries and Andaluz or something else, the propensity for propogation of the language diminishes.

Since Euskadi's population is no longer exclusively Basque, the struggle to keep the language alive is only going to get harder.

CaliBasco, there are lots of Ikastolas where children are taught in Basque and so they learn it regardless of what their parents speak, not to say that I think that Basque will be dominant.

Cali, your statements smell something racist, don't you think? When you mention "pure basque" race are you taking into account that basques have been mixing with other spaniards for more than 3,000 years?.

Do you know that I have basque blood? and castilian, and german, and catalonian, and from Cantabria... curious indeed. I'm probably a rare case. In other countries it is obvious that people is segmented by their origin. For example in France you can clearly distinguish a french from Paris than other from Borgogne at first glance... they are soooo different, aren't they?

It is always better not to mix with rude spaniards... you never know if your blood is going to degenerate. :p

Fernando

I think that your quick edit saved your butt Fernando from Calis wrath Oh yeah Cali is some what reminescent of Hitler a perfect race of pure Basques!! ps I just scrolled down and saw those graemlins haaahhaa I was wondering how you guys got them on.

Ay, ay, ay...I only asked a simple question

Hi,

I have been reading about the Basque language in your interesting posts.

I live in Donostia-San Sebastian (Basque Country) and my mother tongue is Basque.

Now there are three different education models in Basque Country: A, B and D.

A - All in Spanish, Basque like a subjet
B - Mix. Spanish and Basque, about 50%, education
D - All in Basque, Spanish language and literature (in Spanish) like a subjet.

In two of the Basque Community provinces (Bizkaia and Gipuzkoa) the A model has very few force (about 5% or so), being about the half or more, the people that studies in D model. Araba (Alava) the percentages are different, being about one third for each model.

Regards,

Aitor

Since the Basque REGION lies within the borders of the Spanish state schools should al be taught in A mode. The D mode needs to be terminated.

Can anyone answer a question for me ? - I'm planning a visit starting in Cataluna for the end of April and May this year. I've been taking Castillian lessons at night school sort of in preparation. I'm going to be in Barcelona, Navarra, The pyrenees area initially and wondered after hearing from a number of college friends, if my use of Castillian would be welcomed over English since Catalan is used more widely ? Also, how far afield is Catalan spoken, and would French be spoken or understood nearer the Pyrenees ? Gracias !

Hi, Jaybe -

Since you'll be a non-Spaniard in Catalunya (you're British, yes?), almost anyone will be glad to converse with you in Castilian. Some Catalans get irked at people who move there from other parts of Spain and who -- to borrow a British expression -- can't be arsed to learn a single word of Catalan. As it happens, most Spaniards I know who've moved to Catalunya learned the language quickly. In any case, you should have no trouble getting by in Castilian there.

As for those folks who feel a distaste toward Spain's regional languages: remember that Spain as we know it was created through Castile's bloody conquest of neighboring nations, each of which had a language and culture with a long history. Add to that the fact that for much of the twentieth century those languages were suppressed through a variety of legal means, in a despicable attempt to destroy those cultures. If I were Catalan, Galego, Basque, etc., I'd insist on full co-recognition of my native language too. And I'd want signs in the local language (which was illegal for forty years under Franco). Yes, have everything in Castilian as well, but I fail to understand the bile-spewing anger that legal recognition of the regional languages stirs up in some people. If anyone has grounds for anger, it's the folks whose languages were practically crushed out of existence through use of military force and oppressive policing.

You make a good point viajero I agree with you signs sould be posted in the regional languages but in smaller letters under neth the predominant Spanish language so that people coming or in that understand the Spanish is the official language of Spain. Fortunately for the Basque, Catalans and Galegos is the fact they are allowed to carry on traditions and speak their languages but unfortunately their freedom to speak these languages and traditions has seemed to make them want independence more then Francos oppresion.

There was a failed independence attempt in Catalonia in 1934, and the Basque Nationalist Party was founded in 1894.

Today´s independent tendencies were there before Franco. What is happening now is just a conitunation of pre-Franco times.

Well, I ought to check this board a little more frequently. I need to check in to see who's been dragging my name through the mud. Let's see, today's winner is: FERNANDO . See the following:

Oddly enough, I never mention "pure Basque" race. If you would actually read my posts thoroughly, you would see that I was simply making an observation based on the current linguistic base and the linguistic mix in Euskadi. As has become your M.O., your tendencies towards me are antagonistic, not to mention inflammatory and puerile.

I appreciate a good debate, but not at the expense of reason. Please think before you post, even more so when you choose to accuse, and refrain from letting past experience cloud your present...and don't ever insinuate that I am racist.

Check out your internet connection CaliBasco... it seems that you have a two month delay

Therefore we should assume that Madrid's population is not "madrileña", USA's population is not american, and why not, perhaps World's population is not terran if we aprove the extraterrestral life origin theory.

Or perhaps what you are saying is that basques are different, and should be kept appart from andalucians and other diluting blood, in order to keep their culture more basque, and more pure. Are you of those who think that accepting mexicans in the USA is diluting american's culture? or perhaps that accepting Mogreb's people in Spain is going to dilute spanish culture?

Not any single culture is going to be isolate and appart of influences. Much less the basque one, which has been living in relative harmony until some nationalistic fascists started to blow people away.

Fernando

I checked and the connection seems to work just fine.

The quote you referenced has to do, once again, with the language. Of course in any situation where there is immigration, a mobile population, etc. you're going to have a "struggle to keep the language alive". Ummmm...

Just ask any one of the hundreds of latino kids I've taught Spanish to over the past ten years why they're in my classes. The most common answer? "Because my parents don't want me to forget my raíces." Since moving to the U.S., they find it harder and harder to keep their linguistic heritage alive. I'm not sure how that's fascist. If you could let me know, I'm sure it will expand my apparently narrow mind.

If you're inferring that I'm a fascist, I guess I fail to see the connection between an observation which makes complete sense, and has been proven in the laboratory of my life, and an ideology which, in addition to not allowing you to even make observations, is competely senseless. This of course was proven in the laboratory of Spain from 1939-1975...where linguistic diversity was punished, not celebrated.

I'll keep checking the connection. Those opinions I have which have been verified with facts don't seem to change too often, but check with me in two months.

No, I'm not inferring in any way that you are a fascist. I sayed "nationalistic fascists who started to blow people away". This time is me who doesn't see the connection.

I have demonstrated a hundred times what I think about cultural and language diversity in Spain. For me one of the richnesses of Spain is to have various languages, that we should conserve.

I also think that spanish is the common language all around Spain, and I don't believe that catalonian is more catalonian than spanish, or that basque (language created from batua and a bunch of spanish words, and that has been imposed over other dialects of basque, disregarding the cultural diversity of the basque language) is more basque than spanish.

When in one's own country some people try to impose the use of a language (for example Franco with spanish, and now nationalists with the regional languages) we are violating the people's right to decide in which language to speak.

Conserve and use all languages yes, impose the use of any language no.

Fernando

Spain is a democrazy any one can speak any language they want but the official language and most widely regonized language in Spain is well.... Spanish of course regional languages need to be helped along but Spanish needs to survive along side these regional languages to keep the integrety and unity of the Spanish state. As if it hasnt al ready gone thanks to the Basque nationalist bastards.

Well I'll be...if I've ever been misinterpreted to have said that Spanish should be done away with and replaced with Basque let me be the first to put that one to rest.

Fernando, if you would take a minute and think about your intentions, you'll see that they're based on an obviously different-than-yours opinion that I voiced over two years ago. You've clearly misinterpreted my leanings on ETA, the Basques and where they stand as part of the Spanish whole today. I'm sorry about that.

MadridMan has set up this board for the interchange of Spain-related information [Thanks, MM], and I for one think that personal agendas would be best-served, if folks really feel the need, via e-mail. Although I haven't necessarily adhered to this in the past, I plan to from here on out. You have my address, and I will do two things:

A) Apologize for any past personal attacks, and B) check my e-mail, not this thread, for any further comments should you care to contact me.

Now, let's get back to the info-sharing!

P.S. Kumbaya...

Co-official status for the regional languages would not destroy Spain's ability to function as a country.

Switzerland could serve as a role model. That country's recognition of three official languages didn't destroy its people's sense of unified "Swissness" (not to be confused with "Swiss Miss," of course).

What of I have said fits on a personal agenda? Only my answer to your jokes... the rest is part of this same topic discussion Cali...

As for the swiss model el Viajero, yes! but that same model is already in appliance, and nobody in Spain question it.

Galaecian is co-official in Galaecia, basque in the Basque Country, catalonian in Catalonia, valencian in Valencia, mallorquin in Mallorca Island, aranese in Aran Valley. And spanish in all Spain as the main official language.

What I do criticise are the attemps to impose one language over another. This time regional languages over spanish. With laws that prohibit to put shop ads in spanish, when official documents are only in catalonian, where you can't send your kids to a all spanish school without being accuse of fascist (but can do it with a all basque model of education),...

Think about it. Put that you live in New York and that you are studying medicine. Now that you want to go to San Francisco to continue there your studies, and that in San Francisco you have no other chance but to learn another language to go to the university, because California's government force by law that only that language is used in the universities... is that rational?

No, it is simply a way, not to promote a language (which we all have agreed with), but to enforce people to change their habits and speak a given language. That is what is happening in Catalonia and the Basque Country.

I met a boy in secondary school. He was basque, all his family was basque, as well as his ancestors. His family had to move to Madrid because the boy wasn't able to learn basque, and had already lost two years beacuase of it.

That has no sense for me...

Fernando

Hi, Fernando --

Thanks for the reply. I'm glad to hear that Spain has given the regional languages co-official status. I'm surprised (or am I?) that some people have tried to eliminate Castilian signage and documentation in the regions. Is that a widespread attitude? Does it coincide more or less with people who want independence from Spain for their regions?

It concides with the Basque and Catalans in general now in the Basque country and some what in Catalonia Francos regime never trully died they see the new democratic goverment as Francos regime the reason why is because they want to dream about having an independent state when trully they all ready have an independent state. Its up to the Spanish goverment when to put down the hammer and remind the Basque Catalans etc. that they are still part of Spain.

Quintos,

Maybe with a little more compasion and respect things would be better in this world.

Fernando,
I agree with you, every region should have co-official languages in some degree of equality, but not have one superior to another. Due to a lack of demand they have eleminated full Spanish education from some schools. Even though there isn´t much demand for classes in Basque at the University level, the public university still offers them. All forms should be in multiple languages. Also, should they start putting the forms in english too? It seems to becoming the main language of the EU.

You are welcome El Viajero I have done a little research for you.

Artículo 3 de la Constitución española de 1978 (Art. 3 of the Spanish Constitution of 1978):

Castilian and the other spanish languages

1. Castilian is the official language of the State. Every spaniard has the obligation and the right to use it.

2. The rest of the spanish language will be also official in their own Autonomous Communities (as we call our "Federal States") in accordance to their Statutes.

3. The richness of the diverse languistic modalities of Spain is a cultural patrimony that will be object of special respect and protection.


So, as you see, our Constitution of 1978 recognizes the other spanish languages as co-official with spanish. Remember that our democratic history began in 1978 with the aprovance of that Constitution by the majority of spaniash citizens.

As for eliminate spanish from official documents it is something being done (as far as I know) only in Catalonia. For me it is a sign of intolerance and an imposition, and borders inconstitutionality as you see. This attitude coincides obviously with those parties who seek even independence from Spain, or a quasi-independence.

Roe:
I think that the lack of demand (in a society which speaks, and spoke in a great majority only spanish) of the full Spanish education has something to do with the fact that those who chose that modality were pointed despreciative as "spaniards", and also with the fact that the basque government did every possible effort to eliminate that modality in favour of the other three. As I have said before, I'm for the teaching of basque, but not by imposition or coarsion.

At University level you are right that the education is almost fully in spanish.

My opinion is that forms should be in the official languages (spanish and the other co-official languages in their own regions), or at least in spanish, but never only in the co-official language. For me it has no sense to put them in english, no matter that it is the main language of the EU. Only 20% of spaniards understand english, and it obviuously is not an official in our country.

Fernando

You've reinforced what I've noticed on my trips to Spain: That the linguistic Fascists seem to be more densely concentrated in Cataluña, not Euskadi.

This thought bears mentioning again: In my studies of Basque history, it seems that we're most content when simply allowed to let our language and culture thrive, even if it is subject to another culture, or, as it is at present, if it thrives alongside another.

My experiences in Cataluña would lead me to believe that the first sight of daylight and the Catalanes will eliminate castellano once and for all. (Of course this is just my own opinion, and only based on observation, not necessarily on facts... )

Co-official works for me. Now, if we could just remind most Americans that there is no official co- status granted to any language in this country. We might save a few $$$ in printing of government forms in 5000 languages on the off-chance someone from Turkmenistan needs to open a P.O. box down at the post office. ...