I have done some studying and have made some conclusions that are contrary to common beliefe 1st of all even though every one on this site probably knows this Spanish people are ethnicaly European are therefore white and it is not un common to see many Spanish people with blonde hair blue eyes etc. The majority of Spain is white. The often romantized view of Andalusians is that they have alot of Moroccan blood but this is actually untrue al though Andalucian culture is greatly influenced by the Moroccans most Andalu. are white and alot of them have Castiallian blood because of the immigration to southern Spain after the reconquest in other words Spanish people are white "but".... with all this immigration from Morocco and the fact that Moroccan women reproduce offspring alot faster then Spanish women eventually Spains minority will be white. That is why Spain complains about Morocan illegal immagration so much we Spaniards do not want to see our ethnic back ground erased.

With all due respect I don't agree with you Quintos.

Arab invaders were just 50,000 with native inhabitants of the Peninsula being 17 million. It is normal that, though these two populations mixed between them, the native ethnic characteristics imposed over the arabs.

No matter than in general we are white, we are browner than the rest of europeans (and proud of it).

For all its history Spain has received lots of different ethnias which have changed its culture and blood for the worse (as visigoths) or better (as moslems) attending on which was the most developed culture at the moment.

It is not difficult to find here spaniards with blond hair and blue eyes, nor with arab aspect. Celts, ibers, tartessos, romans, visigoths, alans, suevos, berebers, sudaneses, almohads, almorabs, arabs, french, italinas, american indians, equatorial africans,... What we are now is due to all these cultures and ethnias.

The problem with moroccians has nothing to do with its color skin. If 100 years ahead we have browner skin... so be it. The problem is that (as every european country) we are absorbing a great amount of different people who have different customs. It is normal that there are problems at the beginning, but give it years and they will become 100% spaniards no matter how their skin.

Perhaps we can enrich once more our blood and our culture (though all these are not obviously the best representatives of their own cultures).

Fernando

Fernando I agree with you(except for the visgoths). I am studying in sevilla and I am black. My skin complexion is brown. There are spaniards here who are darker than I am. I think many people here are surprised that my complexion is close to theirs as opposed to the darker africans that they see here. Many times spaniards will ask me if I am from cuba. One other thing that I have found here is that many spaniards will talk about the celebration of the jewish , arab and iberian cultures and how diverse it is. The question is, do you embrace those cultures? are you friends with people from those cultures? another thing, it is not uncommon to hear comments like, look there goes a chinese(when i am with spanish friends) I am offended and i am not chinese. This place in many ways is like the u.s. in the thirties and forties. The other day there was a cartoon on spanish television which depicted africans as tribal people with big lips. If this were shown on tv in the u.s. there would have been a riot. By the way I am not saying that all spaniards are racists, but what i am saying is that the negative perceptions of blacks starts with the young and it is a part of this culture without many people recoginzing it, it is like a second nature. It not uncommon for a spaniard to tell a joke about a moreno in front of me. As a matter of fact many of the jokes i have heard here are about blacks. Many people say that the moors weren´t black. What is this preoccupacion with blacks then? I just want to be around positive people who are willing to accept me for who I am and not people who are concerned about the purity of their blood or their social status. I would like spaniards to respond. This is not a witch hunt. There are a lot of good things in spain. I personally think it is the most interesting country in europe given it¨s history etc(actually my professor said that europe stars in the pyranees). but there is also the bad part and things have to change just as in the u.s. It is not about the U.S. or europe anymore, it is about the world.

Matador, you have a point there.

I have friends from Sweden, Iran, Puerto Rico (half black),...

We must consider some facts when judging apparent racism in Spain.

First: United States is a hiper-sensitive country in what concerns the handling of language, so we can't judge spanish behaving with american rules extrictly.

Second: Ethnic or racial minorities in the States (if I recall well) are up to the 40% of the total population, while in Spain ten years ago didn't reach 1%, and even now doesn't rise above 5%. Seeing a chinese, and pointing at him, is not a matter of racism but curiousity for the uncommon (in general i say...).

Said this, I thing that we spaniards should have more respect for minorities (though I wouldn't like to reach US standards of politically correctness).

Spaniards make jokes (chistes) of anything particularly different. You know the environmental disaster of Galicia? I have heard yet of three jokes based on it (some of them cruel). Does it mean we don't mind what happens? No, today I have heard that there are volunteers to cover turns of work to clean the beaches until February, and that the galaecian government is asking people to cease to call because there is no more place for volunteers. It has something to do with our way of being: we are able to laugh in the worse situations, and laugh at everything.

I really believe that we are not a racist or xenophobic country in general; no matter how it may seem, at heart almost noone would deny help to anyone who asks for it (no matter his skin color) nor would consider they are worse for being of other country.

In France the ultra-right has 20% of the votes, in Austria 15%, in other countries a less percentage (but significant), in Spain fascist xenophobic parties has (all of them) 10,000 votes (of 25 million possible).

Fernando

I think we have talked about this more times. In my point of view, in Spain, discrimination is more related to social reasons than to races. Also the appearance and the external aspect. I watched a Spanish film not long ago called El traje, I didn't like very much, but it's about a black african inmigrant of low class who gets a suit by casuality. You see how different people treat a person just because they're dressed with suit and tie.
Of course there's much more to talk about this.

My point exactly, miguelito. why do I have to prove anything to anyone. This reminds me of an experience that I had a few years ago in boston. It was new year´s and I had on a suit and tie and nice shoes. I was in front of a hotel waiting for a taxi. some whites came up to me and said can you call me a taxi. I don´t think it is the suit it is the person. For some reason some people have decided that this is the only role that blacks or other minorities should have. I talked about this same topic with a gentleman from france who lives in cadiz. He said spaniards or europeans are only used to seeing people in these roles, if you are chinese you must own a restaurant, if you are a black african or a person from peru you are either selling those bootleg cd´s or scarves and clothes on the street. God forbid that you might actually have an education or be interested in the art of europe or the things that whites like. This is my point exactly fernando. God forbid that you might show some sensitivity to your fellow human being when you come in contact with them and out of respect not make derogatory jokes. Is this really the european way. So many people here talk about their education and how much harder it is in europe. They talk about the foreign policy of the u.s. and how it is inadequate. Yet where is the leadership from europe(this cultured society with such a great history). it is almost non existent. I don´t necessarily agree with bush on many things, but where are the voices here. There is alot of talk here about human rights, where is it. In sevilla i hear this statement that this is a traditional society. I hate traditions because it only preserves the status quo. Traditionalists don´t change the world, people who go against the grain do.

Amen Matador. That is something USA can be proud of (leadership). I'm quite critic with other things I dislike, but I totally agree with you.

Traditions are good, as long as they aren't bad to certain people. If we spaniards have to change some of our customs (and we are doing it), so be it.

Fernando

I dont believe Spaniards are racist hahahaahahahaa the Spanish people (incase u dont know) are usually very accepting and are extremely nice they are not conforntive at all (usually) there are in general some of the nicest people on the face of the planet but I do understand that there is racism in Spain a year ago I went to a small town some town near Cuenca I think there was some grafitti(some thing thats all to common in Spain)thats anothere thread.. it said VIVA ESPANA except for the "S" was a swachtica or a nazi symbol I have also seen other racist graffiti so even though I haven't ran into any racist people I know they exist just like in every other european country. Im not against legal immagration but I am against illegal immagration becaise the illegal make money by pick pocketing etc. u know the story any ways I dont hate Gypsies but I have to admit point blank that I am a little racist against them mainly because they live in a trashy enviroment and make Spain look like some third world country in Africa I mean the Spaniards aren't the only ones that need to change there customs the Gypsies need to change there tradition of living in dumpsters and tin homes and trashy trailers because they make the country look bad now if it was there own country they can live which ever way they want but in a democratic EU member NATO member etc. We cant have third world towns out side of Madrid now I do understand some Gypsies are succesfull and stuff and good for them but the "trashy" gypsie like ways of Gypsies need to change thats all I have agaisnt them there trashines and there thiefenes. I dont hate them in any way I just dislike there life style not the people so dont call me Spains hitler. I think that was Franco any ways saludos. One more thing Fernando u mention Italian and french etc. but you forgot the British they are storming down in the millions now theres even a place around or in Costa de Sol now called "little England" the coast of Spain is basically ethnicaly British. They have bilingual schools in Spanish/English so wouldn't this be culture "enrichment" not that learning English is bad because if you know English and Spanish your "dialed" basically. But I believe it was more for British convinence of not having to change there language when living in Spain any ways ive talked about this before so ill leave it at that.(in great respect to the Gypsies that added so much culture to Spain).

Thank you Matador. I'm haven't been on the website in a while and glad I came. I'm so glad you brought this topic up. Like yourself, I'm African-American college student currently attending Hampton University in Virginia. Last year, I had the pleasure to travel to Spain with 22 of my classmates. The trip for the most part was excellent except for some places. I know that most of Spain is a homogenous society so when we first landed in Madrid the staring begun. We were there for 2 weeks and went all over the country. Madrid was awesome but when we arrived in Carceres, I noticed that people were staring, pointing, laughing, and what not. To me, this wasn't racism but a culture shock. I believe they hadn't seen that many Blacks together at one time and the fact we dressed like we were from the States made the stares more. Overall, I think its a matter of what people environment are and their beliefs. If a person never seen a black american before, it will be more of curoisity I think rather than straight racism

Yes! I've finally gotten Fernando to prove through his own statement that Basques are NOT Spanish! I offer the following quote from Fernando:

italics added

Nowhere in this direct quote from Fernando will you find a reference to "Basques", as he refers to all the groups that make up Spain (referred to here as "we"). I knew that you'd eventually come around and see things my way. Let this be a bridge to further understanding and concession.

Sincerely,
CaliBasco, Official MM Rabble-rouser :p