Ummm, Cali, I don't really share your view about basques...

It is true that the basque languages (since there has never been a common unified language but dozens of basque dialects) don't have a lathyn origin. And it is also true that the basques have some distinct customs, a distinct culture and so on. But...

The history of basques have always been a shared history with the rest of Spain. You can't understand basque history disregarding spanish one. From the pre-roman cultures, to the muslim occupation, then the Reconquista, and how the basques were a castilian county, then a navarre one with it's own fueros, etc...

Nowadays, no matter how thin their vindications for more autonomy are, they have the most developed autonomy of all Europe. Let's explain this statement, it is not a void one.

The region known as the Basque Country has it's own regional laws, it's own regional parlament, can manage the education, the health public insurance, the police, the infrastructures (railways, highways, roads,...), etc Not any single region in Europe can do this, nor Scotland, nor Northern Ireland (which is just asking for a parlament), nor Corcega, nor the french basques (who didn't even have their own province), nor Naples, or any german lander, or the Belgium's flamenqs, or venecians, or swish cantons, or any other culture with any single cultural sign which could made them different.

The basque nationalists are an aberration in the XXIth century Europe, and can only be understood if we think of them as what they are: provincians, people of villages who can't think in anything but their own village (this case extended village). In a Europe which is slowly becoming a federation of states there is no place for this stupidity.

If we reach a time in which all spaniards worked for the common benefit instead of against our own country, we will for sure become one of the most prosperous countries in the world.

Fernando

When I look up at the Spanish flag I dont think of just Castilla in a sense the flag represents the Basques,Catalans,Galicians etc. The flag of Spain which is basically I believe a country of unified kingdoms much like Britain but unlike Britain the recent dictatorship of Franco has "messed" every thing up. It seems as if franco attempts to unifie Spain has done the oposite and ETA's attempt to destroy Spains seems to be doing the exact oposite we have become more united against ETA. Oh yeah and what ever happened to KAS Madrid sould get there own counter-terriost unit like KAS they sould assinate ETA leaders etc. or plant a bomb where ETA is doing a metting to bomb madrid???? ok just kidding of course thats not the answer to the problem hehehehe.

This much I know about Spain: It seems as if the lack of flag-waving unity and patroitism has actually had a positive affect on the people of Spain. I have been to nine other countries in Europe and the Spaniards are by far the kindest and most trustworthy. I don't feel nearly as safe around the French, Italians, British, etc as I do when I'm in Spain.

I do wish things would settle down with Pais Vasco. They can have their culture, but what good would it do to become an independent nation? It's not worth all this terrorism, nothing is worth terrorism! I also wish the Catalans would relax their "We're Calatans!" attitudes, take themselves down a notch.

Once again though, Spaniards should be very proud of themselves. I have alot of respect for them and for their culture and I want more people in other countries to know how friendly Spaniards are. A few years ago, one of my Spanish friends showed me a magazine comic that used one "stereotypical" thing to describe each European country's people. Ya know, stuff like arrogance (French), bad food (Britons), hot-tempered (Irish), etc, etc, etc. For Spain they said, "Humbleness". I told my friend, 'that's maybe the best compliment you can give someone!'

Saludos!

Fernandito: Yeah, those "stupid" Basques who only think of themselves and their little villages. Boy was Juan Sebastián Elcano a retard for being the first human to circumnavigate the globe...and all of those idiotic Basque whalers who ended up in Greenland chasing mammals...what a ship of fools. They surely didn't give a flying fart about the world around them, did they?

I'm not asking, nor will I ever ask anyone to share my views. That would be arrogant and selfish. I'm happy to point out fantasy legends whenever they pop up, though:

Just when did Spain become Spain? No matter what date you state for Spain becoming Spain, 1492, 718, 1212, the Basques predate it. I recommend you hit the books and lay off the "weekly reader" El País. At least diversify your sources of information if you truly feel that "Spain" predates the "Vascongadas". I'd like to see the citations.

Perhaps the "geographical location" has been a shared proximity for Basques and their neighbors, but their history is as shared as France and Spain, Germany and Austria...

I'll apologize to all my Basque friends who have had no vision whatsoever and made a great life for themselves here in the US, supporting their families in Spain and France along the way, on your behalf for their stupidity and shortsightedness. Abre tus ojos, majo, y una vez hecho eso, que los siga tu mente.

Ho-hum... I sense this thread is reaching the ultimate demise of its predecessors. <tick tock>

CaliBasquito, thanks for a public demonstration on I was trying to show

Oh... and don't confuse basques with basque nationalists, it is a grave insult for them.

Fernando

PD: Juan Sebastían Elcano and Fernando de Magallanes were the first humans in cricunvigate the globe, and were doing it under a spanish flag. Sorry but the Basque Reich didn't exist at those times...

If Fernando had omited the word "always" his statement would be correct CaliBasco are you trying your best to prove people wrong for the las few hundred years Basque and Spanish history has been interconnected.

MM: Notice the fourth post on this thread...I tried to tell you...I knew I couldn't control myself.

Fernando: Imitation is the sincerest form of flatter-ito-y...and by the way, Magallanés never made it around the globe...it was his expedition, but some nice filipino gentleman took his life while in the "islas"...In order to actually circumnavigate the globe, you actually need to go all the way around. Elcano was the ranking member of the crew after Magallanés was killed, hence he gets the credit.

And please, don't be flip with your usage of words like "reich". The Basques had their own lands, own identity, and unique culture even then. Why, Carlos had even sworn to uphold the Basque fueros back in the siglo XVI. He knew that having the Basques on his side was far superior to fighting against them...something that is somewhat lost on the current regime.

Quintos: Not trying to prove anyone wrong...just making sure that all the facts are presented in order to form a more complete picture. Not everything fits into neat little boxes.

Reiteration: 1) I don't care if you agree with me or not, anyone. Not that I'm not interested in or do not value your opinions, just that my sun doesn't rise or set because you accept me or not; 2) I do not support ETA, separation, nor violence in any way (unless it involves Shakira and a larynx-remover) and 3) The information I've presented here is entirely based on personal research and fact. Since I have no agenda other than painting the whole picture, I really don't care whether you believe it or not.

Here's to coming back in a month and editing out all of my ETA posts...[you wish...]

Okay! (heavy sigh...) Seems this is all boiling down already.

SO, UNTIL THE NEXT ETA topic is started (what, in 1-2 weeks maybe?? ) let's call this one quits. I realize it's difficult for a message board to talk about Spain AND NOT discuss ETA from time to time.

Thanks for everyone's input and remember that diplomacy goes a long way. In fact, this has been one of the tamer ETA-related threads we've had in awhile.

Saludos, MadridMan