So basicaly Basques are part of Spain for the money? :-(

Quintos,

Are you twins? Your posts always come in pairs.

Wolf

The term "Iberian" refers to one of the first groups of people to inhabit certain parts of the peninsula. It does not refer, historically, to all inhabitants of the peninsula. If that were true, then the Almohads and Visigoths would be "Iberian" too...we know that simply to not be the case.

The issue here is what a Basque feels that he or she is. From my experience, most Basques with whom I've come in contact, and in my own family, consider themselves Basque first, Spanish or French second. Simply labeling them "iberian" or "hispanic" doesn't make them so. Perhaps more appropriate would be to say "subject to Spanish/French rule". For better or for worse, that is the most appropriate label. Please don't try to fit the square Basque peg into a round minsomer of a hole.

Mmmm, following that kind of reasoning, I have decided that I'm madrileño first and then spanish (or just madrileño). Madrid was not populated by iberians nor by celts, but by a mix of them: celtibers.

Also we were not colonized by the romans because Madrid didn't existed at those times. Madrid was founded by arabs, so we are something different. We have also our distinct dialect of spanish: the cañí, which we call our own language.

Madrid has a different and distinguished culture. We have been expoliated by spanish kings through the history. We have been under spanish rule, but we don't feel spanish, just madrileños. We have our typical regional culture, typicial recipes (cocido madrileño) and typical dressing and dances (as chotis).

Spanish rulers have opressed ourselves as a continued tyranny of 14 centuries, from the very beginning of our foundation.

¡¡¡Madrid Libre!!!

And don't try to round the square, we are not hispanic, nor iberian, nor spanish and not european! We are an ancient and distinct culture!!!

Fernando

Holy moly I looked up Iberian and it had two def. 1. An ancient civillization that lived on the Iberian peninsula 2.One who lives in the Iberian peninsula do the Basques not match the second definition. I can tell this is going no where ClaiBasco how about you just be proud of being Basque and your opinion about your culture but I as an individual believe there is nothing wrong with calling a Basque an Iberian or Spaniard. And now for Fernando I was born in Madrid and I understand what you are saying many people on my mom side of the family were killed by Franco.So I partly agree with your statements but I considered my self SPANISH!!! first and then Madrileno second dont get me wrong im very very proud of being born in Madrid but I considere myself Spanish and since Spain is a democrazy you are intitled to your opinion and since I live in US im intitled to mine.

Quintos I was trying to be very ironic and very sarcastic, since noone in Spain would think as I have stated I was just trying to show how the same discurse of CaliBasco could be aplied in other parts of Spain, and that that does not mean it has any sense. Of course spaniards are different from region to region, of course we have suffered discriminations through the course of the history, and of course there exist different customes, languages and cultures among ourselves (iberians were not the only culture present in pre-roman times, there were celts, tartessos, phoenicians, greeks, cartagonians,...). But all these things doesn't mean at all that were are a unique, cohesive country which has centuries of common and shared history and culture.

There are more things that unite us than the ones which separate us.

Fernando

Haha, well said, Fernando.

We, madrileños, feel oppressed by Spanish governants, who force us to Andalucian flamenco, Valecian paella, sevillanas, Galician muñeiras, Basque pil-pil style cod, Catalan sardanas, Asturian cider, Cantabrian sobaos pasiegos, Aragonese jotas and other dances and food which are not typical from Madrid.
From now on, we'll only eat cocido madrileño and callos a la madrileña, only dress the typical "chulapo/chulapa" costume and dance chotis.

Recent news, Barrio del Pilar, Chueca and Vallecas are claiming independence from Madrid. As a Chamberí resident, I also want my neighborhood to be freed.

Quintos,

I do have one question. Why do so many Spaniards get bent out of shape when people from the U.S. call themselves Americans? If everyone in the Iberian peninsula would be categorized as such, why would the same people take offense to Basques saying they aren't part of a lumped together society and tell us it's wrong to feel that way here? It seems like someone wants it both ways, for their own intent.

Is this similar to the fact there are two Spanish colonies in Morocco which Spain owns, and says belongs to them, but the English colony in Gibraltar doesn't belong to Great Britain?

Wolf (Just curious. Can't have it both ways ya know.)

Ive never heard of a Spaniard being mad because an Amercian calles himself and American therefore I wont comment on that. Gibraltar ah damn Brits. I swear um you dont even want to get me started with Gibraltar bad idea..... Well lets see here Britain came to Spain to get a piece of Spain they took Gib a strategic point in the Med. Spain signed a treaty that gave up "The rock of Gibraltar" but not the sandy istmus which connects it to main land Spain therefore the Air Port is built on Spanish soild and sould be legally given to Spain. The only real reason Gib. became British is because Brits "seem" to like to claim Spanish speaking land and turn into a British territory hence Belize,Falkland islands,Jamaica,Gibraltar the list goes on and on the US had even attacked Spain for basically no reason to claim its land hence Cuba,Philipines Puerto Rico,and Guam it was quote for "Freedom" I believe it was for land and power. So to answer your question the reason Brit owns Gib and continues to own it is because of the bastards that live on the rock and because of Brit. military might the reason Spain owns ceauta and Mellila is because Spain is more powerfull then Morocco and since Morocco owned SPain once why do the MOrocans get mad when we own a piece of their counrty??????? Gibraltar is as Spanish is as SPanish as London is British no one will EVER!!!! change my mind on this never I will always see Gibraltar as a colony of British tourist.

Castiza hahahahaa my grandma and grandpa live in the Bario de Pilar.

Just in case you missed it:

Basque is in the eye of the beholder. I remember in the early 90s, with a cast on my leg, being told that doodling the Spanish flag next to the Basque flag on my "escayola" would not be a wise move, as it would incite certain indivduals and offend others. I did it anyway and was amazed at the comments and looks I got as I hobbled around Bilbao...

This is much larger than hispano-vasco relations...it's deeper than that. The Basques have been Basque longer than the concept of "Spain" ca. 1460 [see Isabel and Fernando get married, uniting Aragón and Castilla, "starting" the idea of a unified peninsula]. During their LONG history, they've wanted really nothing more than to live at peace with their neighbors, swearing allegiance along the way to rulers who pledged to uphold their rights as Basques.

Those leaders of other nations who have trampled those rights have been met with conflict and trouble [talk to Carlomagno about that, amongst others]. You'll note that when the Basques were abused by Roldán and his troops, those same troops which were given passage on their way into the peninsula, were slaughtered.

As I've mentioned before, I do not advocate violence as a viable solution to ideological differences. Unfortunately, those who have aligned themselves with ETA are poor students of history. The Basque way has always been peaceful coexistence with their neighbors, unless provoked and disrespected.