http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/11/intern...artner=MOREOVER

A great article

A great link. It is refreshing, at times, to see a honest and realistic view on Spanish issues from other countries`media. In Spanish papers there is such a terrible self-censorship...
This country stinks, really. The fascists won, they maintained they advantage, and their descendants still want everything to stay without any change...

That is something a bit strong...

I don't see any censorship, just indiference. Let the families bury their people properly, but let's not make a crusade of this.

The NYT article is worth of reading

Thank you for the link Toddy. Fernando, it's not to make a crusade. Nobody is going to pay now for the crimes of the past, but it's just to bring up the whole truth. This is the better tribute we can do to the victims. A lot of people has the feeling that the Franco era wasn't so bad, or that at least it was better than the Republic, and this is like a foot on the head of the people who suffered it..

Indeed, the Republica was not better than Franco dictatorship...

I feel and believe that the families have aaaall the right to bury publicly and properly their beloved, and I agree 100% in the use of public money to search for massive graves.

In what I can't agree is in that we live in a fascist country, or that there exist any self censorship in the media. That is not only truth, but confusing the liberty of expression with a censorship.

Fernando

Fernando, self censorship is everywhere, because the medias have a lot of particular interests. George Orwell wrote an article more than 50 years ago as a preface for his book Rebelión en la granja (sorry I don't remember the original tittle). It's a great book, as all the editors thought, but noone wanted to publish it because it was critic with the URSS, and the URSS was a friend country against the nazi Germany, and the crimes of Stalin were not so bad (this is an example of self censorship), of course I could look for other examples of today if you want.

There is no legal gap at all between the Franco regime and current, let`s say, democracy. That is why they call it "transicion" and not "revolucion". For example, all the laws that were created by Franco governments remained legal, as long as the Parliament didn`t start to change them one by one, after 1978.
The "Movimiento Nacional", that is, the supporters of Franco, gathered in Alianza Popular. This is NOT intended to ofend anyone, it is just a historical fact, as anyone who reads, for example, the debate about the Constitution will easily find out. Alianza Popular became Partido Popular in the late eighties, more or less, since they saw they needed a slight change if they wanted to win the elections some day. That is the moment when they supposedly started to "move to the center".
It is funny that they now support so fiercely the same Constitution they hated not so long ago, or the Estatuto de Guernika. But it is easy to understand the reason if you remember that they have no better chance, to keep Spain united, than to defend the Autonomias state. The only alternative it is accepting the self-determination of the peoples of Spain.
Well, that is exactly the same as their attitude towards the Franco regime. They can`t support the unburying of the mass graves (remember, in Oviedo they opposed). They can`t do that, since many of them, and many of their voters, simply support Franco and the shooting of leftists. On the other hand, they neither can`t state simply "Let all those reds rot under the parking of the graveyard, our only mistake it was to let their damned families to escape". Then What can they do? They start whining "oh, let`s forget about the past, that was so long ago. Everybody is to blame equally in the Civil War, both victims and fascist murderers".
Those relatives who didn`t dare to fix a simple memorial stone, until the early 90`s, had not any reason to do so but FEAR. Not sloth, not oblivion; just fear. If you visit Oviedo today, you will find a monument devoted to the Franquist victory in the Plaza de Espana, just before the Parque de San Francisco. A monument which includes a depiction of Franco`s face. Who wonders the victims` families feared to ask to unbury their kins?
Now, tell me, how come almost no one younger than 50 even thinks about these sort of things? How come the media spend all their time praising the king and explaining us how great the Constitution is? I have only one explanation: due to self-censorship, due to willing oblivion.

So you are saying that between the 11 million PP voters a majority are Franco supporters and want all the leftists shooted. Interesting statement. It says everything about your opinion.

Fernando

Among PP supporters there ARE many franquists, although I admit I have never read figures about the matter (maybe these figures don`t exist, maybe it is a "touchy" matter and they are not displayed to the public). And many of the leaders bear, say, far right ideas. See, when Escriva de Balaguer was made saint, how many PP ministers travelled to Rome. Being a member of Opus Dei is not exactly what I would call a "progressive" person.
It is an interesting point that in the earliest elections, 1977 (or 1979? anyway, I am referring to those when Suarez won), when AP didn`t bother to conceal its Franquist links, it still collected a good handful of votes.
I think anyone who knows Spain can report that it is not difficult to find people who claim to "occupy" the Basque country, and end all these nonsense about independence. That is the kind of people I regard as franquists. People who think it is acceptable to do certain things, like starting a war, when "the country is in danger"

yeah franco was a real saint...that's why my mother's family barely escaped to morocco with just the clothes on their backs...and why they rejoyced so when the bastard finally croaked...
sounds like more revisionist history...