I know that probably most of you still think that Colombus was from Genova (Italy). May some of you
have also heard about some other possible origin of Colón (that he was from Galicia, from Extremadura,...), but please take a read to all what this webpage says. I´ve read it and I have no doubt now, Colon was a Spaniard from Cataluña (there are lots of evidences for it). Believe me, this is not an imaginary recreation of hipothetical situations, it is just the explanation of many real things that concludes that Colon was from Spain. I don´t believe the histories that says that Colon was from Galicia, Extremadura, or others, I believe 100% what this webpage says and I´m not from Cataluña I´m from Madrid.

http://www.bcngrafics.com/cristobalcolon/index2.html

I wonder if there is a possibility to change History or at least do a revisionism for this important history. Is there any place in the US where I could post the ideas of this webpage, I mean, an important History Academy or similars?.
I wonder why the Genova idea was supported, they just found a Cristobal Colon that was also a sailor in Genova and made the mistake.

For example, look how many people that have the "Colon" surname there are in Cataluña (just in Barcelona there are 443, so imagine why is also so easy to understand that the real Cristobal Colon was from Cataluña as that webpage tries to support with a lot of other evidencies:

From the whitepages in (Barcelona (Spain):

http://cgi.elmundo.es/paginasblancas/cgi...amp;submit.y=10

ERT,
I looked at your website and I did not see any convincing evidence, only speculation. That is one of the problems with the Internet. Many times folks make assertions without any evidence to back them. As we readers evaluate a web site such as this one, it is important to note that it does not have any historical association affiliation nor attached to any university site. It may well be someone's wishful thinking or someone pulling one's leg.

Regarding the name "Colom" being popular in Barcelona, that is not evidence in and of itself. It just may mean that people called Colom moved to Barcelona at one time or another, or it could be that the surname could be common like the name MARTIN, which can be Martín in Spain, Martin, in France, Martin in England, etc.

Without academic(historical documents, etc.) evidence I am afraid that I cannot give credence to this website and would shelve it as a fanciful site.

I don't believe a word of what you have post in your website, and I don't even believe that you are from Madrid.

What I have read there makes me think two things:
1) The facts are manipulated
2) You are a staunch pro-catalanist (we just have to see how the facts tend to show Castilla as a represive kingdom and Catalonia as a democratic paradise)

Fernando and Isabel were two rulers which had very clear what they want. The things didn't happened by casuality as you state. The conquered new territories in coordination, formed alliances, married their children with forgein powers, made the same laws in the two countries (as the expulsion of the jews) and divided their areas of influence: the Mediterranean Sea for the Aragon Kingdom (in those times the official name was "Corona de Aragón" not Corona de Catalunya-Aragó, Catalonia was formed by small counties attached to the Aragón Kingdom), and America for the Castilian Kingdom.

I think that Colón (I have met with a direct descendant) was genevese, and that's all. If he was aragonese (or "catalonian"), why didn't he offered first the trip to the aragonese king Fernando? He offered it first to the Portugal king, and then to the Castilian Queen.

Fernando

So what's the point anyway? He didn't even discover América, some northerner/vikingo did.

Although the proof isn't that fake parchment, which was carbon dated to 1938! That gave me a laugh.

Actually, there's DNA evidence from certain Canadians Indian tribes that Indo-Europeans were in North America before the Vikings ever came into America. But the biased liberal American media tends to "twist-and-turn" things around so that only certain information is given out...but that's another story. :o

Biased yes, but liberal, no. The media serves the "empresariado" and its interests faithfully, while promoting itself as liberal.

Not really having to do with the original question, but on a similar topic, does anyone know why in English we use the name "Christopher Columbus" and in Spanish/(Italian too?) "Cristobal Colon"?

I think that the importance of Cristobal Colón is not really if he was the first european to reach America or not. The true importance is that after his arrival a colonization process like any other in history followed. That is the difference between the vikings which probably reached Terranova and Cristobal Colón.

For some reason the task of the discovering and the figure of Cristobal Colón are always dimissed by americans (north and south-americans), as his mere existence was an insult.

America was already "discovered" by its own inhabitants but that doesn't change facts, and facts are that it was discovered for Europe in 1492, before that year, Europe ignored the existence of it. And it has a great historic value because at those times Europe was the more developed and civilized region in the world.

The colonization process was a cultural shock like noone before.

That is: disregarding nationalistic considerations (if he was spanish, genevese, portugese or even japanese, or if America had already been "discovered") he was a man who achieved something almost impossible with the ship technology of the moment, and which has
great cultural consequences in the following centuries.

Fernando

...and people wonder why discussions end up involving arguments. As an American, I get sick and tired of hearing someone offer up crap as facts, then starting off on a tirade against the US, simply because a few people don't agree with the garbage they're slinging. As Americans, we have every right in the world of defending our institutions when they are assaulted by someone whose own nation's institutions aren't any better, or are worse than ours. We may love Madrid, and love Spain, but we aren't going to sit back and agree with you, just because you're Spanish, and "all things Spain are perfect," because it's obvious they certainly aren't.

I think the American press is a joke, but I certainly wouldn't be throwing that in the face of an American if I was a Spaniard. To think that anyone would believe the Spanish media offerings are anything less than "biased" is absurd. I've always believed you clean the crap off your own doorstep before you tell others to clean theirs up.

As for America down-playing Christopher Columbus, that may be true in some nations, but certainly isn't in the US. His memory is revered. We have cities named after him, a holiday, streets, and pictures of him throughout the nation, honoring him. Please seperate the US from any "generalizations" when it comes to him. Hell! MadridMan lives in a city named after him, if you haven't taken the time to notice.

We're not naive enough to believe he discovered the "US." What he did discover is "The Americas." He discovered it for what was then considered the progressive and civilized nation of Spain, for what was considered the progressive and civilized society of Europe. We know that. We just don't spend two hours a day for an entire school year getting into the political and sociological aspects of this singular event, because there's so much ground to cover, and that was just the opening of "European exploration" in the Americas.

I've always believed that along with the "right to speak your mind" comes unwritten clauses that says "speak with common sense," "be diplomatic," "know your facts," and above all, "act like a responsible person." If a person can't live by those little rules, they shouldn't be speaking their mind in the first place.

There's an old adage that should be considered.

"Put your brain in gear before you put your mouth in gear."

That might be aprepo at this time.

Wolf (Whose knees felt weak, and had a lump in his throat, when he was in Rota, at the site of where one of Columbus' pilots had lived. Tell me I don't respect the historical significance of the man, and what he did.)

Fernando,

That is not my webpage (I saw it last week and I´ve read it and I believe many of the EVIDENCIES -yes, evidencies, I think you have not read it- that are on the webpage. Fernando I´m not a procatalanist because I´m a madrileño -I don´t know why you don´t believe me. And despite his origin being catalan, he was a Spaniard because in 1492 all the kingdoms in Spain got united, so a catalan was as Spanish as a castilian or as a galician.

The webpage is the consecuence of the 40 years investigation of 2 persons having studied 9.000 documents. There are 63 pages in that website, I bet you haven´t read them so you don´t really know the evidencies of the website. And I know how to distinguish a suposition from an evidence. I repeat it, those are evindences

Evidencies (the evindecies are resumed in this webpage, it is different from the other webpage I gave you yesterday (in Spanish):

http://www.bcngrafics.com/cristobalcolon/

Read all of it please, I´m sure you can change your opinion about the subject.

For example this:

" El 3 de Abril de 1493, Colom es recibido por los reyes en Barcelona.
El rey se estaba recuperando de un atentado en el Monasterio de Sant Jeroni de la Murtra en Badalona.
Después de la recepción real, "se despidió de los reyes , y aquel dia toda la Corte de Palacio le acompaño a su casa" (segun los cronistas)
Colom se hospeda en una casa llamada Mas Sunyol (Badalona), casa que segun el archivo notarial de Barcelona, pertenecia en 1492 a la familia Colom de Barcelona"

It means that Colom after his voyage went to Barcelona and was hosted at the house Mas Sunyol (Badalona), house that belonged in 1492 to the Colom family of Barcelona.

Or for example this:

http://www.bcngrafics.com/cristobalcolon/23_la_indumentaria.html

In that webpage you can see (with pictures of the Descubrimiento) what were the typical clothes of the people that did the voyage. Those clothes were the tipical clothes of the catalan people of that dates: Barretina y "saravells".

Other evidencies that support the catalan origin of Colom:

"En el segundo viaje, organizado desde Barcelona, salen con Colom ; Bernat Boïl (y doce monjes mas de Montserrat), Joan de la Cossa ( dueño de la nave Santa Maria), Antoni de Torres, Francesc de Prenyanosa, Pere Bertran i Margarit ( jefe militar de la expedición , sobrino del ex-presidente de la Generalitat, Francesc Colom ), Miquel Ballester, Pere Casaus ( padre de Bartolome de las Casas) , Antoni de Torres, Pere de Sala, Joan de Serrallonga, Antoni d'Alemany, Pere de Requesens ( hay un Requesens almirante de la marina catalana en Lepanto ), Ramón Pané ermitaño de de Sant Jeroni de la Murtra, ( el cual escribió la Relación acerca de las antiguedades de los indios. en 1498, el primer libro escrito en America y el primer tratado de antropología americano) Ramón Ponç, Miquel Moliart (cuñado de Colom) , Guillem Coma, Lluis d'Urrea, Nicolau Esteve, y otros muchos catalanes más."

In his 2nd voyage those were the people that went with Colom. Most of them from Cataluña.

Or for example, it was very usual to call a foreigner "genovés", independently of his origin. In Castilla, the foreigner people was alwys called "genovés" as you can see in this part of the website:

"En 1497, micer Joan May, canciller de la Generalitat en Inglaterra, informa mediante una carta ( Archivo de Simancas) a Cristóbal Colom del viaje a America del catalán Joan Cabot. (naturalizado veneciano el 28 de març de 1476) "otro genovés como Colom" según el embajador del rey en Londres, Ruy Gonzalez Puebla.
En Castilla llamaban "genoves" a todos los extranjeros. "

There are many other evidencies, like the fact that Colon didn´t mention his genovese origin in any of their thousands of documents:

"En ningun documento hecho por él, pone que fuera de Génova, excepto en el Mayorazgo que todos los historiadores consideran falsificado por los genoveses para los "Pleitos Colombinos"."

... read it please.

BTW: Colom is the catalan evolution of Colombus, as Colon is the castilian evolution of Colombus. So the 463 persons from Barcelona that have the surname Colom is in fact Colombus or Colon, depending which language you choose.

And now, could any give me any ideas that support the Genovese origin of Colon?.