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#52609 - 06/29/02 02:02 PM Any Muslims In spain anymore?
salsaking Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 4
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Hey guys as we all know Spain used to be a muslim country for 500 years. Is there any muslim people and or females left in Spain? I think there has to be allot that are still there. I am asking these questions because I am musilm and I am finaly making a trip to Spain in October I was supposed to do it last year but I was 2 pay checks away from making a reservation, but then I lost my job so I couldnt go but finaly I am going! wahooooo!!!
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"The key to inmortality is living a life worth remembering"

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#52610 - 06/29/02 05:11 PM Re: Any Muslims In spain anymore?
SandraZ Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/13/01
Posts: 21
Loc: Madrid
Hi Salsaking, There are lots of Muslims in Spain, but not likely any direct decendents of the Muslim rulers you are speaking of. Spain was reconquested by Christians (in the 15th century I think?)and I believe that Muslims left or converted. The Muslims here now are mostly Morrocans and other North African immigrants.

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#52611 - 06/29/02 08:49 PM Re: Any Muslims In spain anymore?
Fernando Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 07/05/01
Posts: 1551
Loc: Madrid, Spain
As SandraZ says, there are not many spanish muslims.

The reason is that, among with the jews, spanish muslims (which were not majority in the spanish society on medieval times) were forced to abandon Spain or convert into christianism in 1493.

Nowadays the northafricans are the greatest collective of muslims in Spain (almost half a million).

There is a modern and big "mezquita" (muslim temple) in Madrid, which also serves as cultural center. Take a look, it is beside the M-30 highway.

Fernando

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#52612 - 06/30/02 11:03 AM Re: Any Muslims In spain anymore?
ERT Offline
Member

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 51
"I think there has to be allot that are still there"

??. The number of muslims that came to Spain in the 8th century was 30.000.
The muslim invasion was mainly militar and cultural and most of the muslims were Spanish Christians that converted to Islam to avoid paying taxes to the Muslim militars. In addition to the permanent wars that lasted centuries, the massive expulsions (300.000 jews and muslims were expulsed in 1492, and more in 1609), the probability to find a muslim that have been descended from any muslim of 1492 is probably less than 0.00001%

Muslims only dominated 1 province of Spain for 8 centuries (Granada). In the rest of the country the muslim domination was from 0 years in some parts of Spain, 2 centuries for most of the half North of Spain, and 4 centuries for the rest of the South of Spain. So in more than half of Spain the muslims were there for only 2 centuries.

Now We have many muslims (may be 600.000) but they are immigrants from Morocco or Argelia mainly.

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#52613 - 06/30/02 03:35 PM Re: Any Muslims In spain anymore?
salsaking Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 4
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Thanks guys for the info and Fernando I will be sure to check out that Mosque. Others converting so they wont have to pay the muslim tax? well what country doesnt impose taxes on others? muslims also had to pay tax also in those days called the Zakat.
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"The key to inmortality is living a life worth remembering"

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#52614 - 06/30/02 06:17 PM Re: Any Muslims In spain anymore?
WB Offline
Member

Registered: 04/25/02
Posts: 63
Loc: Philadelphia
Spain was Muslim for 700 years, not 500. The first invasion was in 711, and the final city (Granada) was reconquered in 1492.

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#52615 - 06/30/02 11:26 PM Re: Any Muslims In spain anymore?
salsaking Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 4
Loc: Toronto, Canada
wb oops hehe I thought it was 500 my bad.
_________________________
"The key to inmortality is living a life worth remembering"

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#52616 - 07/01/02 02:06 AM Re: Any Muslims In spain anymore?
madrileño Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/01/02
Posts: 2
Quote:
Hey guys as we all know Spain used to be a muslim country for 500 years
Saying that Spain has been a muslim country is simply incorrect, you must refer to Al-Andalus, the muslim entity that developed in the most part of the Iberian peninsula during the Middle Age.Spain as a nation was formed by the autoctonous inhabitants of the country, of christian religion, and Spain as state was born after the unification of the Kingdoms of Castile, Aragon and Navarre, just after the expulsion of the muslim rulers by a sentence of a Royal Decrete, from 1502, and was culminated from 1609 to 1610 with the last wave of expulsions to Northern Africa.

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#52617 - 07/03/02 10:45 AM Re: Any Muslims In spain anymore?
CaliBasco Offline
Executive Member

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 1495
Loc: Idaho
Well, if you want to get technical, let's do that.

Spain was never 100% Muslim-controlled then. In 711, the moors swept over the peninsula easily defeating the fragmented Visigothic ruler Leovigild. In the space of two years, they were crossing the Pyrenees ready to move on France until the Franks stopped them, [allegedly by serving them spoiled hotdogs at the "Franks vs. Moors Sporting Challenge Games of 778"].

The only pockets of resistance/unconquered territory were parts of present-day Euskadi and the Picos de Europa region of present-day Asturias (near Covadonga). History, of course, reveals that at least one of these pockets became Christian Spain, and the birthplace of the "Reconquest".

The infighting and outfighting between Christian rulers, their brothers, cousins and then the Moors, continued for centuries. Those who think the "reconquest" of Spain was a Christian vs. Muslim holy war are out of touch with the facts. Christians fought amongst themselves as much as they fought the Muslims, and many times they struck alliances with the Moors in order to further their own political motives.

There were a few key turning-point battles like Navas de Tolosa in 1212, but for the most part, the Caliphate of Cordoba and subsequently Granada were the major Moorish-influence mainstays. These comprised maybe a third of the peninsula at their apogee and didn't last the entire "800" years.

The startling statistic here to me is the fact that the Christian "renconquerers" didn't realize what had allowed the Moors to conquer the peninsula in a matter of a couple of years: Unity vs. a system in civil war. Had they remained unified and fixed on a common goal, they might have removed the Moorish "threat" in a much more timely fashion, much more inexpensively, and with less loss of life.

Okay, you can all wake up now. The lesson is over. laugh
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#52618 - 07/03/02 10:50 AM Re: Any Muslims In spain anymore?
Asterault Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/01
Posts: 536
Loc: Gijón
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition! laugh

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